Poll: What can ANACS do?
RedTiger
Posts: 5,608 ✭
ANACS holdered coins seem to be slipping down in value even more, since the highly touted relaunch. The threat of counterfeit slabs, the badly managed product relaunched, followed by yet another new holder in a short time has damaged the franchise. Certainly this is anecdotal, not statistical evidence, however, as an owner of quite a few ANACS holdered coins, I am distressed by the poor management because I believe it is costing me money and that my ANACS holdered coins are slipping in value because of their mistakes.
For what it is worth, and also anecdotal, the very few new ANACS holdered coins I have seem accurately, if not conservatively graded. Again, demonstrating that grading is a necessary part, but not enough by itself to make a successful grading company.
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For what it is worth, and also anecdotal, the very few new ANACS holdered coins I have seem accurately, if not conservatively graded. Again, demonstrating that grading is a necessary part, but not enough by itself to make a successful grading company.
/edit typos
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Comments
<< <i> how hiring back James Taylor would help the company >>
No way. He's already done enough to hurt ANACS. They don't need any more "help".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
i want to see the original slabs come back yet slightly refined.
Somehow allow the 3rd side to be seen and maybe give people
some choices...
i would also want to see them grade much stricter.
give collectors free grading coupons at shows and offer to show
them how their grading will go back to their old school ways.
hm maybe no one would submit when you have ngc around offering
their grades for a fee. the grades dealers want :-|
There's a reason peolpe don't put high-dollar Morgans in ANACS slabs.
Steve
Seriously, I like ANACS and use them regularly for varieties and errors, as well as anything I don't want to spend a lot of $ on slabbing but need authenticated. I think that's where the problem lies- that's how they're looked at in the industry. To be taken seriously, they need to figure out how to make a coin in an ANACS MS-70 or PR-70 holder worth as much as one in a PCGS or NGC holder ( I think NGC has been making a lot of the same mistakes lately- they're giving out a LOT more 70 grades compared to PCGS.) Their coins also need to be able to cross to the other two more often without losing points...just getting different graders won't work- they need to make it known that things are tighter there and back it up.
--Christian
In a way I agree with FC that the old slab was better and I liked it more but maybe changing back would just be another change and they already changed too much and too often.
The best thing they could have done would have been kept the old small slab but added online cert verification like PCGS has.
Maybe online verification plus some good security feature would help. I still like ANACs for varieties.
<< <i>They can hire me
Seriously, I like ANACS and use them regularly for varieties and errors, as well as anything I don't want to spend a lot of $ on slabbing but need authenticated. I think that's where the problem lies- that's how they're looked at in the industry. To be taken seriously, they need to figure out how to make a coin in an ANACS MS-70 or PR-70 holder worth as much as one in a PCGS or NGC holder ( I think NGC has been making a lot of the same mistakes lately- they're giving out a LOT more 70 grades compared to PCGS.) Their coins also need to be able to cross to the other two more often without losing points...just getting different graders won't work- they need to make it known that things are tighter there and back it up.
--Christian >>
I doubt there is any reasonable way ANACS can make their coins graded 70s worth what PCGS 70s go for. The only way they could do it is to rig the game and pay dealers to make high offers for ANACS 70s. PCGS got there with years of controlling supply, years of building a dealer network, years of smart marketing, years of playing hardball against the other grading companies. Even if ANACS did all that going forward, PCGS is already in the trenches in the #1 position as far as valuation for graded 70s. People would rightly always fear that ANACS might change course again and then slab a bunch of new 70s when it is convenient for them to do so. It is very difficult to gain trust when a company has already done things to hurt the valuations of existing coins.
<< <i>I think making big changes to the slabs was not good.
In a way I agree with FC that the old slab was better and I liked it more but maybe changing back would just be another change and they already changed too much and too often.
The best thing they could have done would have been kept the old small slab but added online cert verification like PCGS has.
Maybe online verification plus some good security feature would help. I still like ANACs for varieties. >>
Yes, definitely a big need for online cert verification with ANACS counterfeit slabs possibly being produced by the thousands. This would be a minimum. It is easy enough for the scammers to look up legit ANACS cert numbers and put those on the fake slabs. I am not sure what kind of good security feature they can do at this point. There are tons of legacy slabs out there that are sitting ducks. If the counterfeiters succeed, an ANACS holder may mean very little in years to come.
Personally, I have already become wary of some ANACS holdered coins being sold online because of the very real threat of counterfeit slabs, and what I see as a subpar management team at the company.
They don't need to grade more strictly, from what I've seen and experienced, they are the hardest grader around. I think if they cut their customers some slack and didn't put coins in damaged holders for the least little thing, they would get more repeat business. They should do as PCGS and NGC, if it's a minor problem drop it a point or two and call it good enough. If the big two were as quick to call a coin a problem coin as ANACS is, there would be a heck of a lot more body bags. A coin in an ANACS problem holder - to me - is less valuable then raw, and unless it’s vary rare and frequently counterfeited a total liability.
And for all their conservative grading what do you get? A coin with a steeply discounted value…
Edited to add: My take is from the classic coin side of the fence. They are way too hard on them - I have no clue how they operate on latter issues, they may be sloppy as hell - no idea.
...
Create a unified databse for variety collectors. PCGS doesn't and probably won't attribute an 1880-O VAM-13B Morgan? Fine. For a modest fee, their very capable attributor will accept the coin for inspection and verify the attribution. Further, they would photograph it and list it with the PCGS tag number in a public database as that variety with the PCGS assigned grade.
Where do you go with that? Naturally you also build and manage THE unified variety registry. The photographs, taken and owned by the company per a release on the submission form, would make an excellent catalogue for writing industry standard attribution manuals and census guides.
To go to the next step, their resident numismatists, augmented by occasional outside specialists, could provide a service to exhaustively assess a coin with a presentation that would make the diamond industry's equivalents jealous. Face it; many collectors who buy five-figure or so coins would love to have their coins analyzed and a clear and distinctive provance established in their names.
Let the others drag their feet. This is where ANACS has a residual point of strength that could be leveraged to grow them into a powerful position.
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Anyone have a photo?
Thanks!
<< <i>Are the counterfiet slabs that are turning up modeled after the old style white slabs or the new style clear?
Anyone have a photo?
Thanks! >>
The one confirmed on this forum was a new small white problem coin holder with a Trade Dollar inside, discussed at this thread:
thread
There was at least one confirmed counterfeit NGC slab.
across the street discussion
The distressing thought is that it takes a lot of work, a lot of tooling to make one of these fakes. Making a thousand is probably only a little bit more work, a little more expense than making the first one. Once perfected, tens of thousands can be made quickly and cheaply, and find their way into the U. S. market via back channels. Only fools would sell directly from China to collectors. If a group is smart enough to fake these items all the way down to holograms, they are probably smart enough to find people dumber than them to buy the coins. Launching yet another new holder is a band aid solution. The counterfeiters will like copy that new holder within a few months. Having a myriad of types of holders on the market creates confusion, and is in my opinion, lowering the value of ANACS holdered coins, and doing damage to the franchise.
A warning message did go out on the coin dealers network, in June 2007, discussed on this thread:
thread
Coin dealers are aware, most collectors are not. I haven't heard about any reports in the magazines about the problem or official responses from ANACS or NGC.
<< <i>...as an owner of quite a few ANACS holdered coins, I am distressed by the poor management because I believe it is costing me money and that my ANACS holdered coins are slipping in value because of their mistakes. >>
I'd cross them all to PCGS or NGC.
As for the poll, I chose "Merge with one of the big two". Competition is healthy for the market, but at some point you have to cut your losses.
<< <i>I like ANACS and use them ... for ... anything I don't want to spend a lot of $ on slabbing but need authenticated >>
I agree. And I love the new holder. The old holder sucks as bad as the NGC holder. To me, coins just look better in a
clear holder. I own only ANACS and PCGS coins, and I had all my old holder ANACS coins reholdered.
All the ANACS holdered coins I have are accurately graded. Actually, I look for ANACS coins that are accurately graded,
and I buy them because I know I can get the same coins cheaper than if it was in another holder. ANACS has their
niche market, and I think they do a decent job.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
In the soda market, just two but kind of one. Is ANACS the RC Cola of TPGs?
Is being the 3rd or 4th TPG a losing proposition? Do you have to try and grab the #1 or #2 place?
<< <i>I've adopted a policy of thinking of ANACS as for circulated coins only.
There's a reason peolpe don't put high-dollar Morgans in ANACS slabs.
Steve >>
Yup and you don't see many nice toned Morgans in their holders either. Are they merely a screening service for PCGS?
<< <i>In any given industry, how many top players can a market support?
In the soda market, just two but kind of one. Is ANACS the RC Cola of TPGs?
Is being the 3rd or 4th TPG a losing proposition? Do you have to try and grab the #1 or #2 place? >>
No, no, no. ANACS is the Moxie of the TPGs. (Moxie was the first big soft drink.) The analogy is strikingly appropriate.
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SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member