Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver Ball

stown

Auction Link

Description

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Few names in baseball inspire quite like Shoeless Joe Jackson. The legend of his deeds on the field aroused comparisons to Ty Cobb during his playing days. F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote of his misdeeds in the classic The Great Gatsby as did Eliot Asinof in Eight Men Out. The presented OAL Ban Johnson baseball features just two signatures - Joe Jackson (d.1951) and Buck Weaver (d.1956). The statistics suggest that neither man actually “threw” any games at the plate, as Jackson hit .375 and Weaver hit .324, the two highest batting averages for starters on the 1919 Chicago White Sox during the Series. Both men contended they were innocent and tried for years to get back into the game they so loved. The all-important Joe Jackson signature is positioned on the south panel in blue ink directly above the Ban Johnson stamp and grades a (“5”) in strength and clarity. The “Jac” in Jackson is slightly obscured but the overall presentation of the signature is stellar. The Buck Weaver script is on the east panel in black ink and is superb, grading a (“7”) with only a minor smudge on the first “e” in Weaver. The ball is uniformly toned with minor abrasions present. Both signatures display as singles, but it is the Jackson that will draw the majority of the attention. This magnificent sphere was most likely signed during the 1920 season and features the signatures of the two most likable figures in the dirty scandal that gave rise to the Black Sox reference. The incredible baseball comes with a full LOA from JSA.

bishop

Jackson testified on September 28, 1920 before the Cook County Grand Jury that he in fact accepted $ 5000 to throw the series. He testified the most he had ever earned in a season was $ 8,000. He also teatified that he was promised a total of $ 15,000 and was not paid the additional money. He testified he was upset about not getting all the money he had been promised, while others, like Cicotte, he believed had been paid more. The clear implication of the testimony was that he did not follow through because he was not paid in full. In any event, it was his admission that he had agreed to and did accept $ 5,000 to throw the series, AND the fact he knew about the conspiracy, knew it was being acted upon by some, and did not report it that led to his ban. The last point is often overlooked

Mac53

Exactly Bishop. The guy had all the talent in the world, but he was a crook.

stown

It looks like there's additional signatures on the ball but it's not mentioned in the description.

Just below Joe's, it looks like a B... And it looks like 2 sigs next to Buck's.

Also, I thought Joe signed his name with a "X"? Or was that just a myth?

MooseDog

The myth that Jackson only signed with an X is partially true. He did learn to write his name but from what I understand from books and such, he didn't like to write his name and when he did it was very slow and shaky...and, I might add, I seriously doubt that he would have been able to write his name on a ball that clearly at all. By most accounts he did not sign autographs, and his wife handled virtually all request received by mail.

For the longest time among autograph collectors there was great debate as to whether a real Shoeless Joe signature actually existed. Then in 1990 dealer Herman Darvick (now employed by PSA) handled a sale of a reputed Jackson autograph for over $23,000. This was reportedly the first ever Joe signature ever seen. Darvick has a somewhat checkered past, at the risk of getting this thread deleted, just Google his name and read around a bit. Darvick is now employed by PSA as an authenticator.

Now don't get me wrong, I like to see rare and unusual autographs come to light as much as any collector. However, I keep seeing more and more things pop up in these auctions that just don't make sense.

The ball looks to have had some faded writing on it. Kids writing maybe? Autographs that faded out? Is it just coincidence that two of the rarest, most desirable signatures in baseball happen to have survived unscathed on that ball? If anything, the ball may have been signed in the 1940s but who would have been able to track down both Weaver and Jackson and would have gone to all that trouble.

I contend that one or both signatures on the ball are fake. The formation of the "c" in Jackson and in Buck are too similar. The "k' is the same in both signatures and the "e" are both in the "Babe Ruth" style. I'm not sure I buy the story of the consignor either. Of course it helps that the only "known" authentic Joe Jackson signature is on his last will and testament so in essence there is nothing else to compare to.

Someone with more money than common sense is going to pay big money for this ball based on a JSA opinion. I guess as long as bidder, consignor, auction house, and authenticator are happy, that's all that matter$.

killingdream

There is definitely some additional ink on that ball. As a matter of fact it looks like Weaver signed right on top of someone else. It is a nice looking signature though. As for the Jackson I think that it looks horrible. It barely looks like it says Jackson. I don't see how it grades out to an average five.

rube26105

geasy neale from my hometown here played on the reds against em in that i believe-there is definately other stuff on the balll, like to have it in my hands too look at it,
somebodys sig is underneath both of them in blue but hard to tell what,lets ask em

scooter729

The other "signature" under Joe Jackson's name is not someone else who signed the ball, but the stamp of commissioner Ban Johnson's name on the ball.

I think under Weaver's name is not other signatures, but more ball markings (ball manufacturer?).

MooseDog

Scooter's right about the Ban Johnson label under the Jackson sig, however, I agree with the others that there is other writing on the ball besides the two sigs and the ball labels.

RipublicaninMass

"E"'s look similar