Bonds ball to be branded with an asterik.
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
Awesome.
Ron
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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Just saw it. Interesting.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
If Bonds didnt want that to happen to the ball then he should have bid on it himself. It's not like he didnt have the money. It's the buyers money, he can do what he wishes with it.
Even though politically correct seems to be the theme of today's society, we are much less conservative. I dont think anyone from the early 60s would have done anything like that....or even thought to.
It will actually gain more attention if it makes it to the hall of fame.
I've been there numerous times and dont really gain anything by staring at a baseball in a glass case.
I think the new owner actually made it more historically significant by branding it...
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>Yes, the comissioner (I think it was Frick) officially put the asterisk on Maris's record. I think the Bonds ball speaks more to our feeling about memorabilia than records. >>
I don't believe that's accurate. There was never an asterisk in the official record book. Instead, there were two sets of records, one for 154 game seasons, one for 162 game seasons.
<< <i>Yes, the comissioner (I think it was Frick) officially put the asterisk on Maris's record. >>
That has always been a mis-conception (of course the *61 movie didn't help). There was NEVER an asterisk in any official record book. For awhile they showed two HR records in the Official Record Book; one for a 154 game season (Ruth) and one for a 162 game season (Maris).
No other baseball record was listed seperately from a 154/162 game season.
The "Two HR Records" became the asterisk since Frick had been a one time friend and ghost writer for Ruth in his earlier years.
The same ignorance appeared when Aaron passed Ruth and HR per AB became the standard of choice for power hitters...
<< <i>frankly, any records before 1947 should have an asterisk. >>
I agree.
Taking a piece of American history and doctoring it is inexcusable. The general public's 'outcry' is pathetic...30 years from now, people will look at the ball and wonder why people were so friggin' petty...much like we look at the people who called for an asterisk on Maris' 61st HR.
The people who voted for the asterisk should be ashamed of themselves.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
30 years from now the lifetime HR record will have been broken at least twice more and people will only remember the Bonds record for the social aspect and not the importance of the record.
Selling 1961-1962 commons, stars, and high numbers baseball and football
<< <i>I don't like Bonds at all. I have no doubt in my mind he cheated, but I also feel this is a piece of baseball history, whether good or bad its still history. I guess its the collector in me that has a problem with marking the ball. People have their opinions, and most feel he cheated, marking the ball changes nothing. >>
I completely understand where those feelings come from, but at the same time, the events that have led to the ball being branded are nearly as historically significant as the ball being knocked out of the park. In the long run, maybe more so.
The funny thing is, I bet the ball would sell for more at auction after the officially branding than the 3/4 mil Ecko paid for it. There is a lot of brilliance behind this whole thing.
Chris
My small collection
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This is one vote i will enjoy for years to come!!
Funny, but kind of sad in a way, considering Bonds was probably the greatest player of his era, even without steroids.
<< <i>frankly, any records before 1947 should have an asterisk. >>
and Mayimbe, you reiterate this stance. Presumably, this statement is made in reference to the fact that baseball was not integrated until 1947. I've never quite understood this position.
In 1961, the concept of an asterisk was meant to denote that Maris' 61 home runs wasn't the "official" record because Maris didn't hit 61 home runs in 154 games; it took him 162 games. In 2007, the concept of an asterisk is in reference to Bonds' alleged used of steroids to assist in him hitting his 762 career home runs. Essentially, the asterisk is in reference to some sort of taint; be it the taint of having additional games in which to break a record or the taint of using steroids to break a record. So with this in mind, is the taint of every record set before 1947 attributable to baseball not being integrated? We'll never know, but how do we know that:
1. Hack Wilson would not have driven in MORE than 191 runs in 1930 had baseball been integrated;
2. Babe Ruth would not have hit more than 60 home runs in 1927 had baseball been integrated; or
3. Rogers Hornsby would not have hit higher than .424 in 1924 had baseball been integrated.
Are we assuming that had baseball been integrated, all pre-1947 records would have been lower? Or is the reference to pre-1947 records and the asterisk a simple reference that a record, e.g. 60 home runs in 1927, could have been higher or lower had baseball been integrated. If lower, then this certainly conforms to the negative connotation of the words taint and asterisk. But if higher, then this appears to be in direct contradiction to the very concept of taint and asterisk. Essentially, how odd would it be for Babe Ruth to say that there should be an asterisk next to his 60 home runs because he believes that he would have hit more than 60 home runs had baseball been integrated.
... just some crazy ramblings.
/s/ JackWESQ
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For talking purposes let's say that all records set before the '47 season most certainly deserve an asterisk beside them. I think this statement could only be true if viewed from the angle of limited competition. If the 100m were an unknown track event, and Carl Lewis and myself were to go head to head in the first ever 100m race, I would most certainly win, thus setting the World Record, if Carl Lewis were not allowed to run because of his ethnic background.
The statement "frankly, any records before 1947 should have an asterisk" holds true under this mindset because perfectly viable players were not allowed to equally compete, limiting the competition and any potential record great enough to exceed those records of which baseball history holds in esteem.
There are many ungodly records referenced in the Negro Leagues, but unfortunately record keeping in the leagues was shoddy and, like the major leagues, competition was limited. Who knows, the Babe may have very well hit 60 in '27, but whose to say Josh Gibson couldn't have hit 61 if allowed to play in the majors that season? Babe's record would be reduced to a great season.
As for Maris, his playing in more games compares not to an individual using performance enhancing substances to out do players who didn't know the meaning of "sports medicine," much less steroids.
Still, branding the ball is classless and petty.
<< <i>If he really wanted to make a statement, he could have gone to the bleachers at a Giants home game and thrown it back. >>
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I agree !
That would have been one hell of a statement .
OMG, How huge would that have been ?
JackWESQ... It is hard to say whether the records would have been higher or lower. Clearly, there were great hitters and pitcher in the Negro Leagues so it is hard to imagine that there would not have been significant differences, higher or lower, to all the records during that period of time. My point was not that there should be asterisks to any records. As someone put it, the segregation in baseball was an artifact of the "times" and although there are probably more than a few pre-1947 baseball players who were racists, they can't be held accountable for the fact that MLB was segregated. That being said, and I am no proponent of performance enhancing drugs, why single out Bonds? We're talking about an entire generation of players who may have used these drugs, possibly players who will set records in the near future. Will every bat, ball, jersey or glove worn by these future record setters have the asterisk or is just that most folks vilify Bonds so much that he is going to be the only player whose record is viewed as "tainted"?
The hatred for Bonds is profound and in my view, it is way beyond excessive. If it was anyone else, Ecko would have kept the ball clean. He took advantage of Bonds reputation to do some cheap advertising and produce an astonishing number of hits to his web site. All this crap about bringing attention to the problems in Major League Baseball was a smokescreen for his true motive, financial gain.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Edit to add: And a tax write off! LOL