PCGS numbers for Type B Proof Reverse Silver Washington Quarters

Boom

There has been some interest lately in the Proof Reverse of Type B Washington Quarters.

The following is the list of correct PCGS numbers for the coins, year by year.

1956- 145647
1957- 145024
1958- 146067
1959- 146068
1960- 145643
1961- 146069
1962- 146070
1963- 146071
1964- 145654

1964-D Type C # 145423


I can't Guarantee BUT am relatively sure of the PCGS numbers for each coin.

I would encourage any and everyone that is considering submitting any such coins to verify the #s with Customer Service. They will be most helpful, I'm sure.

I must also say that I am thrilled to have found this!

docg

There has been a recent significant bump in the populations. Someone must have made a big submission. There are several listed on Teletrade right now. The 1958 is sweet!

ProofArtworkonCircs

I will vouch for those numbers as correct. I have used them to find population reports for each and every one.
A previous post in another thread had the numbers garbled for 1958 and 1960. This explains why the population reports were not available.
1958 has a total of 15 with the highest being 4 MS64, 9 MS65 and 1 MS66.
1960 has a total of 13 with the highest being 4 MS64, 3 MS65 and 6 MS66.
I assume the populations are low due to PCGS only grading these for a short time now.
lI have found customer service of no help in obtaining numbers. Perhaps they would verify one if you had it, but I don't think they could help if it was off.

ProofArtworkonCircs

The garbling was all my fault and only in my notes. My apologies for any confusion I caused.

Boom

Just found 59, 60, 61, 62 and 2-63s that were either in my Dansco or Mint sets I had set aside.

No 56 or 57 and just the one 58 shown above. .... so far! I need to check the Registry Set too.

I feel reasonably certain that I have several more tucked away in envelopes besides the ones I have saved up in tubes.

There can no mistake about it. When you run across one, you'll know instantly because of the vine and how everything is in such high relief, including how the Eagle just jumps out at you.

Cool coins. Stuff like this puts the Joy back into collecting and the Hunt!

I also found a small date 1960 Cent and a 57 Quarter with definite Cameo on the Obverse AND an Accented Hair Kennedy. YES!!

DoubleEagle59

I have a feeling the Type B varieties are not that rare.

I just checked my Dansco collection and my 1959 is a Type B variety.

Boom

We'll find out sooner or later. They may well not be but 1 thing is for sure - right NOW they appear to be.

ProofArtworkonCircs

Funny thing here. I question whether type B are truly higher relief. They appear to be but the cause is the field being lowered. If you define high relief as the lowest point to the highest, it is high relief. I am completely unable to to distingush silver type B from ordinary silver by touch.

The clads are in lower relief, so I can pick up a clad B by touch as it feels just like a silver one (type A or . I can feel the high relief of the eagle's breast. I am able to separate 1969D's and 1970 D's into three piles by touch alone. The third pile are the Type C modified for the 1968 S proofs. In this case I cam detect my fingernail catching on the very high relief field - inside wing boundary.

WCQX

A chunk of the recent jump in PCGS pop report is me submitting my extra type B and C reverses accumulated over many years of active searching. Not as many out there in high grade as you think. Most of mine were cherry picked in PCGS holders long ago and just got them designated. Many were crossed over from other company holders that were also undesignated. Unless there are other accumulators like me I do not expect to see big jumps in the pop reports. Most of these Type B and C are in collector hands already as knowledgeable dealers have cherry picked them and offered them with undesignated holder for years. The 1958 and 1959 are not common type B dates and are scarce in choice unc and very scarce in PCGS MS65 or better. The nicest I have ever found of these two dates are currently in PCGS MS66 holders. The 1964-D type C are very rare and I got several from a source that found them searching mass quantities of hand wrapped rolls assumedly from a bag. Shocking there was that one MS66 in that hell hole of scrap metal a glorious coin I am proud to own..... a feat that probably will not be duplicated any time soon. There is only one die pairing known of the type C reverse that I have seen and I have hoarded all of these I could find in BU (a scant dozen). I have also seen several AU superslider Type C in BU holders over the years. The Type C reverse are all struck from a new die so probably did not pruduce a full lifetime. I have consigned my surplus hoard material to upcoming Teletrade auctions. Not that much to start and only a few auctions then gone. dr

quattrocoins

Where do you find the pcgs #s and pops?

Boom,

I'll trade you a '57 for a '56, '58, '62, or '64.

bushmaster8

WCQX, I have to disagree with your assessment of 1959 B being uncommon.

I believe it is the Most common of them all.

cladking

<< <i>A chunk of the recent jump in PCGS pop report is me submitting my extra type B and C reverses accumulated over many years of active searching. Not as many out there in high grade as you think. Most of mine were cherry picked in PCGS holders long ago and just got them designated. Many were crossed over from other company holders that were also undesignated. Unless there are other accumulators like me I do not expect to see big jumps in the pop reports. Most of these Type B and C are in collector hands already as knowledgeable dealers have cherry picked them and offered them with undesignated holder for years. The 1958 and 1959 are not common type B dates and are scarce in choice unc and very scarce in PCGS MS65 or better. The nicest I have ever found of these two dates are currently in PCGS MS66 holders. The 1964-D type C are very rare and I got several from a source that found them searching mass quantities of hand wrapped rolls assumedly from a bag. Shocking there was that one MS66 in that hell hole of scrap metal a glorious coin I am proud to own..... a feat that probably will not be duplicated any time soon. There is only one die pairing known of the type C reverse that I have seen and I have hoarded all of these I could find in BU (a scant dozen). I have also seen several AU superslider Type C in BU holders over the years. The Type C reverse are all struck from a new die so probably did not pruduce a full lifetime. I have consigned my surplus hoard material to upcoming Teletrade auctions. Not that much to start and only a few auctions then gone. dr >>




Thanks for the info.

This explains why the grades are so high; inexpensive coins aren't submitted unless they're high grade.

This also leaves you in a very enviable position.

ProofArtworkonCircs

Here are some hopefully educated thoughts on distribution of type B's. In general they started off as scarce and became more common as the years passed. But there are exceptions to that rule.

1956 UNC is quite rare. I don't recollect seeing one on eBay this year. Beginners luck. That was the first live roll with B's in it that
I found. I grabbed what I could and gave most of them away.
1956 circulated. This shows up occasionally on eBay.

1957 comparetively common.

1958 once considered a scarcer one, but I think it has two things going for it. I think the percentage of B's in an original roll is related to the proof and business strike mintages ratio. 1964 Philly has roughly 100 times the busines strikes of the 1958 Philly while the proof ratio is roughly 4 to 1. So I expect to find more B's in a 1958 roll than a 1964. ALSO 1958 Philly was a low mintage and was saved rather than melted. 1964's were common and melted. Perhaps 1958 B's are more common that 1964 B's. The PCGS population report is 15 1958 to 8 1964.

1959 I venture as quite common although the PCGS POP is only 13. 187,000 mint sets were made with most having a type B in them. I assume these are still around in top shape unless they were melted for silver in 1980. One eBay seller in March 2007 sold an "original" unc roll for $242.50. The same month he was selling specimens from another complete "original" roll. I don't think these came in original rolls but were assembled later.

1960 260,485 mint sets with maybe roughly half of them with type B's.

1961 I consider this as the second scarcest.

1962 PCGS has only graded 8, but I never considered it particularily tough.

1963 PCGS count is 139!

1964 Once considered the most common, I now wonder if it might be a rarer one due to the silver melt. See the discusssion under 1958 above..

Boom

Just found another small stash I had socked away. It's comprised of a 60, 4 1961, two 1963 and a dozen or so nice tough D minted pieces (58-62).

FRESH Material! Another thread asked, "what is a very overlooked coin within your series?" Actually, with a series this large there are several. Mintage figures can be quite misleading.

A prime example would be the 1954-S as compared to the 54-D or P. The S pieces from the 50s have gorgeous, satiny luster (51-S thru 54-S) and though only 11,834,722 1954-S were made as opposed to 54,645,503 1954-D, suprisingly enough it's tougher to find 54-D in higher grade than 54-S, as evidenced by population.

Another great example is the 1958-P. People often overlook the fact that only 7,235,652 pieces minted. This is the lowest minted 50s Quarter behind only the 55-D (3,182,400) yet the "semi-key" Quarters from the 50s are NOT the lesser minted. The 55-D in MS 66 as well as the 52-D, 53-D and 54-D are the prized coins.

The 55-D is the lowest minted behind the 39-S & 40-D, in ascending order behind the 32-S & D, the 37-S, 39-S, & 38-S. There are fewer 55-D minted than such KEYS as 1934-D, 35-D&S, 36-D&S. Think about this for a moment.

Of the 3 Million 55-D minted the vast majority of them are terribly lacking in Quality. Many were badly beaten up, so downright ugly or had awful metal mixture, that they were not highly prized and were either used or sent to the smelters' pots which only serves to make nice examples that much more prized.

Considering the going rate for 34-D, 35-D, 36-D etc, & supply vs Demand of PQ 55-D, to me it's a nice coin to hoard.

The 58-P @ 7 Million is also way overlooked! Couple THAT with scarcity of Type B 58s and ....... BINGO!

quattrocoins

<< <i>Where do you find the pcgs #s and pops? >>



Anybody???

Russ

Go to the pop report page and enter the coin number in the box labeled "Lookup by PCGS No:".

Russ, NCNE

quattrocoins

<< <i>Go to the pop report page and enter the coin number in the box labeled "Lookup by PCGS No:".

Russ, NCNE >>



I may sound stupid, but where do you find the coin numbers?

Russ

<< <i>I may sound stupid, but where do you find the coin numbers? >>



Boom's first post.

Russ, NCNE

SanctionII

After picking up Vol 2 of the Cherrypicker's Guide, 4th Edition, I read up on Type A, B and C reverses on Washington Quarters. I looked at the pictures of the three varieties in Cherrypickers and armed with this new information looked through some silver Washington quarters.

Years ago I bought a roll of MS 1958 P Washington quarters for $60.00. The coins were in a plastic tube. I took out the roll and looked closely at the reverses of all 40 quarters in the roll. Out of the 40 quarters, 34 of them have the Type B reverse.

If it turns out the the Type B reverse is rare for 1958 P quarters and the value goes up as a result, I will have myself a valuable little mini hoard of them

quattrocoins

<< <i>

<< <i>I may sound stupid, but where do you find the coin numbers? >>



Boom's first post.

Russ, NCNE >>



Well, duh!

Where did Boom find them???

WCQX

From my experience in my opinion I rate the scarcity of the type B as follows:

#1 1956, #2 1961, #3 1964, #4 1962, #5 1959, #6 1958, #7 1960, #8 1963 and #9 the most common is 1957. Great to hear others opinions as well and eventually the pop report will tell. dr

DoubleEagle59

Do these Type B reverses occur with other years before 1956?

ProofArtworkonCircs

The coin numbers of the various silver circulation strike B's are given as the first entry in this thread.
If anybody has numbers for the clads (1969D-1972D), I would appreciate having them listed. (I don't even know if numbers exist for these).
The only way I know of getting the numbers is to submit a specimen and see what you get.
Population reports are available to PCGS subscribers only.
Type B exists prior to 1956 on the proof coins only starting in 1937.

ProofArtworkonCircs

SanctionII Congratulations on your good find.
No offense intended, but I trust you were using the pictures on page 152 and not relying on the leaf - arrowheads picture on page 189 which really is a type A.

ProofArtworkonCircs

I don't know why I didn't include the clad B's in my commentary yesterday.
I think they are rarer than any silver ones. I have only seen 1 1969 D and one 1970 D offered for sale in my life. I have never seen a 1971 D nor a 1972 D offered. In this series the earliest year is the most common and they get progressively rarer. My looking has been in the Boston area and results might have been quite different in another Federal Reserve District. I fear most specimens are in circulated condition with few uncirculated ones. I have only heard of two uncirculated specimens, both 1969 D.

1969-D unquestionally the most common clad, has been reported from several states. In 1973 I had beginner's luck with these. I found 1 B in every 115 1969 D's or 4,000 total quarters. Today I don't think I could find 115 1969 D's in 100,000 quarters. I would guess 10 dies were involved for a mintage of 1,000,000 total.

1970-D second most common in my experience. Others have reported it very rare. This was the last date James Wiles of Coneca was able to verify its existance. I would guess about 5 dies or 500,000 based on my experience which might have been exceptionally lucky.

1971-D I believe this a one die coin. 5 out of 5 specimens all show the same die chip. Extrapolating my finds indicate a mintage of 80,000.

1972-D Another one die phenomenon based on the number found. It looks like 40,000 out there to me.

Boom

Mr. Rall, am I understanding you correctly in that now you seem to lend credence to the fact that the 61-B is the 2nd scarcest?

This is the ONE year that I have the most of. Personally, I believe it too early to tell, as in the case of Mr. Sanction there are simply way too many collectors yet to come forth with their holdings.

I had quite a hoard of all years at one point in time save for the 56, 57 & 58. I believe I have all years now but for the first two (that I am presently aware of). There well may be even more stashed away here.

All we can do is go with what we presently know as fact. In time as these are graded we then will have a much clearer picture of the true numbers involved.

ProofArtworkonCircs

I started collecting silver (and clad) type B's in 1973. At that time I diligently searched dealers' stock and came to the conclusion that 1956 was the toughest and 1961 was the next toughest. Though, initially, I had more 1956 than any others. I now wish I still had them.

While shaving this morning, when I seem to be the most creative of the day, I realized there were at least 5 ways of trying to count these.
I will have more to say on this later tonight. At this point in time, I don't think the PCGS POP's give a true indication of what is out there.
Actually, none of my methods are perfect. More later.

SanctionII

ProofArtworkonCircs,

Thanks for the reply to my reply. I have not looked at the roll of 1958P quarters or Voume 2 of Cherrypicker's, 4th Ed. in a long time. I believe I made my assessment of the coins from the pictures and text on page 152.

My memory is that in the beginning of the section on Washington quarters there is a discussion of Type A, B and C quarters and pictures that clearly show each of the three reverses. Later on in the text on the pages that discuss each year, there are additional photos. I recall reading the introductory section, looking at the pictures of the three types and comparing each of the 40 coins to these three pictures.

I will have to pull out the CPG and the roll of 1958P quarters again and take a second look. I also have multiple MS silver and early clad Washington quarters that I have not inspected to determine which reverse types I have. I will trot those coins out and inspect them also.

This is an interesting topic. This thread and others posted previously on the same topic have been very educational and informative. Kudos to all who have replied.

bushmaster8

Yes, you've gotta go by the pics in the Intro to Washers in the CPG. Unfortunately, the pics in the date-by-date analysis are a hodgepodge of correct and incorrect.

ProofArtworkonCircs

My earlier brainstorm of 5 or 6 ways of determining comparitive rarity of the various dates no longer seems so brillant. Anyhow, here they are.

1) Find a large original random hoard of silver and analyze it. OR find documentation from the old days. Actualy I have one quoted below.
2) Buy an equal number of original rolls by date and analyze them. This would give a distorted view though.
3) Anaylyse today's dealers stock.
4) Anaylyse collectors holdings. Probably tough to do.
5) PCGS numbers. This will eventually probably will be the best way. I think it is somewhat distorted at this early stage.
6) Count the eBay offerings over a period of time.

Coin World's Collector's Clearing September 23, 1970 quotes the late W. W. Edwards as follows:

"Possibly more than 5 per cent of the 1957 circulation strikes were Variety II [that is what we called "type" B in those days] reverse. All other years would be considerably below this percentage but the Variety II design should be considered "rare" in no year. The most scarce Variety II reverse appears to be 1956, possibly followed by 1958."
Also:
"In view of the great "coin melt" which has consumed many millions of silver quarters, particularily 1961 thru 1964 dates, the Variety II quarters of these years may in time prove to be more scarce than earlier issues." [We had another great coin melt in 1980].

The concensus seems to be that 1956 is the toughest to find of the silver issues and 1957 the easiest with some uncertainly as just how to rank the rest. I maintain that the 1972 D type B is the most difficult in the whole series.

Perhaps the earliest dates are especially scarce in uncirculated condition since they were not widely known and saved then.

ProofArtworkonCircs

In the 15 years ending 26 Aug 1988, I had gone through approximately 715,520 clad quarters.

I found 1 1969 D B in every 114.24 1969 D's.
I found 1 1970 D B in every 723.86 1970 D's.
I found 1 1971 D B in every 2,783 1971 D's.
I found 1 1972 D B in every 8,316 1972 D's.

Things went downhill after that. The next 80,000 quarters yield nothing except a very few silver and proofs.
Today, it is almost impossible to find these dates and mints in circulation. 100 quarters might yield a 1970 D.
I am not trying very hard these days.

docg

Can anyone post a picture showing the different reverse dies found in clad quarters?

RickMilauskas

I've been collecting Type B reverses for about six years and have found the following:

1956 - 10
1960 - 14
1961 - 15
1962 - 21
1964 - 34
1959 - 42
1958 - 45
1957 - 46
1963 - 77

Boom

I'm with DocG. I only know the Silver Quarters (32-64).

Can someone/ anyone please post some pix of the clad types so I know what to look for?

Thanks. I'd appreciate it.

Nice stash, Rick!

ProofArtworkonCircs

I have noted two requests for pictures of the clad varieties. I regret that I can't furnish them directly. However I note that TeleTrade has very good pictures and there seems to be a complete set of early clad varieties there. (Oops, I am missing one)

So here is a list and where to find them there. The pickup points are visible in the pictures.

Type "C" original 10% 1965, rare on 1966, 1967. Teletrade auction 2432 lots 1583 & 1584. These are the 1964D -C which are deceptively well struck. Note E Pluribus Unum letters are thick and low in relief (at least on the clads).

type "C" "A" reverse 1965 - 1969D Auction 2433 lot 1480 (1969D) EPU thin high letters, weak spot on inside of Eagle's wing to viewers left.

Type "C" B reverse a few 1967 - almost all 1972 (Any 1969 Philly will do) EPU strong, eagles wing strong, hub doubling (repeated on the next two items).

type "C" modified 1968S, 1969 D, 1970 PD auction 2433 lot1483 and 2432 lot 1592. Very strong outline on eagle's inside edge of wings.
wing tips have an outline line added. No barb on top arrowhead.

type "C" C reverse all 1973-1974 auction 2430 lot 1361 leaves touched up, extreme tip of wingtips have an outline similiar to "modified".

Type B with clad modification some 1968S, all 1970S-1972S, auction 2433 lot 1484 similiar to silver B's except now eagle's tailfeathers have centerlines similiar to the other early clads listed here. Eventually this feature was changed.

1970 D double die auction 2430 lot 1358 I presume its main attraction is probably rotated doubling, but It is also a class III double die with the C-B reverse and C- modified dies. And each of these have some hub doubling. The pickup point for class III is the inside edge of the eagles wing is stronger than a C-B but weaker than a C - modified but the exact degree can vary from specimen to specimen. The outline of the eagle's wingtips is present. They are rather common in the 1970D but quite rare in 1970 Philly.

ProofArtworkonCircs

Combining eBay offerings of 22 March, 6 April, 19 June, 1 July and 3 Oct 2007 I get the following type B distribution:

1956 3 all circ
1957 19
1958 10
1959 33
1960 10
1961 7
1962 1 circ
1963 24
1964 4
1969D 1 unc

ProofArtworkonCircs

I am curious. How many forum members here have D mint clad B's besides myself?

I only knew 4 other people that collected these. One is deceased and I strongly suspect another one is. A third one I have lost touch with. The fourth is going strong and only needs the 1972 D.

ModernDollarNut

TTT - this is too interesting to die out. Rob

Rampage

TTT, I posted my other thread and then found this one. Very interesting stuff here!

Hyperion

neat stuff !
I just checked my 58 and it's not type b

bushmaster8

A PCGS MS65 1959 went for $70 in the Nov 14 Teletrade auction. Strong $ considering the relative abundance of the date.

ProofArtworkonCircs

I am amazed at that price for a 1959 type B. One seller was playing with two rolls of them on eBay earlier this year.

The 2007 Redbook lists a 1959 mint set at $55. I think the odds are very, very high that the Philadelphia quarter in one would be a type B and in uncirculated to boot. The half would also probably match the proof half (yes that proof is also different from the regular circulation strikes.)

SUMORADA

Just sniped this off the bay...............

docg

That '56 does not look to me to be a type B reverse. Tough to tell by the picture though. I looked at the same coin and passed on it thinking it is a type A. Let us know if you scored.

ProofArtworkonCircs

It looks like a "B"and a great find to me.

Strangely my favorite pickup points are not clear in the picture. I like to see the leaf end sticking above the arrowpoints. This fact is sort of hidden by glare in your picture. I like to see the solid leaf to "A" of "QUARTER" bridge clearly. Yours seems a little dark in that area, but the fact you can even see the leaf indicates a "B". The sharpness of the lettering and wing field contrast is quite noticeable.

How did I miss it on eBay?

ProofArtworkonCircs

Sorry, wrong "A". I meant the one in "DOLLAR".

The longer leaf above "T" of "QUARTER" in the space between one wreath stem and the end of the other is a pickup point for the "B". Usually on the 1956 type B it is rather incomplete. Yours looks good. I believe that only two dies were involved in 1956 and yours is the bettger one for clarity.

I know how I could have missed it. Was this a cherrypicking exercise as well as sniping?

SUMORADA

yes ! I looked at several other dates this guy has and either the pics were bad or they were not type b...........I'll post this one when I receive it ...........I think it is type b 100%.

ProofArtworkonCircs

There are other pickup points for type "B" and your coin has them.

The stem end above "T" of "QUARTER" being parallel with the top bar of "T" is another one.

I am a bit uncertain about your ES spacing of "STATES". It seems a little tight but might be glare again.

The only apparent " B" I ever saw that wasn't was a 1952 class III doubled die "A" and "B" together. The early die state had a close "ES."

SUMORADA

How about the M in UNUM that brackets the IB in PLURIBUS ?

ProofArtworkonCircs

Yes, good point! I had fallen out of the habit of using it.

19Lyds

Dang! Finally succumbed to reading this thread that keeps popping up over and over again!

Decided to go through my quarters and found a 1957 Type B and a 34 Light Motto!

The forums score yet one more time!