Dealer question: Grey sheet pricing

jmcu12

I would really like to know why the the grey sheet, and subsequently dealers, generalize the grades, G, F, VF, XF, AU?

As an example; an AU58 coin should purchased AND sold differently from an AU50, yet with the pricing they are treated as if they are the same coin. Are these generic designations used as a way to help pad the profit margins of a dealer? I can sort of understand as it applies to raw coins, but when they are certified there is less doubt.

Russ

The print is already small enough. Adding specific numeric grades would make the sheet unwieldy and difficult to read.

Russ, NCNE

Bochiman

<< <i>The print is already small enough. Adding specific numeric grades would make the sheet unwieldy and difficult to read.

Russ, NCNE >>





Translation...Russ is getting old and his eyesight is going (but he refuses to wear glasses)

jmcu12

Couldn't we just make another page?

OR, if the sheet were available online and searchable, this would help.

TomB

Do you think they have enough pricing data to more finely parse the grades for all issues?

EagleEye

Would you sell AU-58's for Grey sheet AU-50 money?

I typically figure AU-58's at MS60 and sometimes MS63 money. That's buying not selling. Grey sheet is losing its value as a pricing guide, except for proof sets, IMO

jmcu12

Absolutely; I think the data is available and has been for quite a while. I just needs to be gathered.

SilverBaron

Agreed..... What is NEEDED much more than another grading/sticker service is an expanded - updated - larger print sheet. With a circulation of 5000+ at $100. each.... one would hope the profit margin is there .

BigBuffaloGuy

The best way to take advantage of the grey sheet is to use it as a pricing guide, not as a price list. What do I mean? I mean you can't look at a coin, assign a technical grade, and then price it based solely on the price listed for that grade. (What follows might sound a bit strange, but it is true.) You have to look at the coin, assign a technical grade, think about how attractive to you the coin is and how much you like it (subjective, but most agree to some degree on attractiveness), consider how close it is to next grade level, determine how much it would cost you to replace it with a similar coin, and gage demand. Only after all that can you come up with a price level you are comfortable with.

So lets say I have two coins of the same date and mintmark. One I grade AU-50, and the other AU-58. The AU-50 coin looks like it just barely makes the AU-50 grade, and I can't get rid of it fast enough. For this coin, I might price it close to AU grey sheet bid, or maybe even a little less. The AU-58 coin, on the other hand, is a beautiful, lustrous coin with just the slightest bit of friction on the very highest points. It shows hardly a mark. I would just assume own this coin over a typical MS-60 coin that shows no wear, but has lots of marks. For this coin, I might price it very close to MS-60 money, even if there is a big jump from AU to MS-60 in the grey sheet.

I can't tell you the number of times coins brought many times grey sheet bid because of their unusual eye-appeal. And these coins were purchased by some of the smartest coin dealers I know.

One's own perception of a coin's value is the ultimate determination of how a coin is priced, then the market decides if that price is accurate. If the coin sells unusually quick, the coin may have been priced too low; if the coin isn't getting any takers, the coin is probably priced too high.

In other words, it is unnecessary for the grey sheet to list more grades.

jmcu12

<< <i>In other words, it is unnecessary for the grey sheet to list more grades. >>



Except that there are many out there that are too lazy to go through the steps that you have detailed, and with which I agree (at least in priciple), and pay and price them accordingly. They rely, almost like a crutch, on this sheet and the prices on it as if they were the end-all and be-all.

walkerman

It is interesting how many people consider the Grey Sheet prices "written in stone".
As if the Grey Sheet Organization with it's miniscule staff could actually assign a firm price on every coin in existence in every grade regardless of such considerations as strike, surfaces, and above all --eye appeal.
The bid price is actually the price dealers on the electronic network offer to pay for coins they need and will be acceptable as adequate for the grade after seen in hand.
It doesn't state that they can actually buy a coin they want for that price and many times they have to raise the bid to acquire it.
The same goes for the ask price.
No dealer could survive on the spread between bid and ask on most coins.
I've come to dislike the term PQ as it has become over used to the point it has become trite and meaningless.
I prefer exceptional quality( at least until it also becomes hackneyed) to describe coins that one should not expect to buy for grey sheet bid or even ask.
The collectors who own all the best coins would never have owned them if they used Grey Sheet prices as the most important criteria in their purchases.
If I had to choose an example of great collections, the NFL set of Morgan Dollars assembled by Greg Bingham comes to mind.
When these coins came to auction it was obvious to everyone who viewed them that none of them would hammer down for anywhere near Grey Sheet prices. And they were right.
They were exceptional prices for coins of exceptional quality.
I managed to buy some and sold them for an even higher price in just a short time.
The same was true for collections like Duckor, Hugon, Scher and many others.
I've had so many people at shows who actually begin to get confrontational when they see a coin in my case that they really like and can't buy for sheet prices.
It's one of the main reasons that many dealers choose to only sell to other dealers or savvy collectors who understand these facts rather than continually hassle with uninformed public buyers who make closing a sale like pulling teeth.
This might answer a lot of other questions asked on this forum as to the aloofness and disinterest some dealers show to many potential buyers. Dave W



David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com

jhdfla

Hi dave,

All very true. Anything approaching above average technical quality with original surfaces or color always brings more than sheet at auction these days. So you're supposed to sell it at sheet? You won't be in biz very long partner...
Try finding an 1871 seated quarter in gem for around 5K for example... I'd buy all you can find.

John

Newcomp103

<< <i>Do you think they have enough pricing data to more finely parse the grades for all issues? >>




How does Numismedia do it? They give all of the AU intermediate grades!

EagleEye

You have to be your own judge as well. Are you going to buy 1909 Indian cents in VF for 5 times common money just becaue the grey sheet says so? Sure, there's a promotion on, but I am not going to be sending the 1909 indian cents I buy in to them so I can get my $11.

Frankcoins

Most truly rare coins cannot be bought for anywhere close to "bid." Why add more columns of grades which no actual transactions occur?

Barbercoin

Years ago, I used the Grey Sheet as my primary guide for buying. But, like Dave points out, I now use it more as an additional data source which is affected by other factors.

roadrunner

I've had so many people at shows who actually begin to get confrontational when they see a coin in my case that they really like and can't buy for sheet prices.
It's one of the main reasons that many dealers choose to only sell to other dealers or savvy collectors who understand these facts rather than continually hassle with uninformed public buyers who make closing a sale like pulling teeth.
This might answer a lot of other questions asked on this forum as to the aloofness and disinterest some dealers show to many potential buyers.

You said a very (true) mouthfull. I figure I sell 98% of my stuff to dealers. They usually pay more, without excuses, without hassle, without nibbling your a$$ off, and with a quick check.

roadrunner

yellowjacket

Well spoken points by all posters here. We all know that it is the individual coin's merits...eye-appeal, in the marketplace that determines its value. Auction archives, grey sheet et.al. are only guides, a starting point, to setting the price.

"Exceptional coins" are worth the extra stretch to close the deal, and are a joy to own. They are also a joy to sell when the right time comes!

Garrow

DieClash

<< <i>The best way to take advantage of the grey sheet is to use it as a pricing guide, not as a price list. What do I mean? I mean you can't look at a coin, assign a technical grade, and then price it based solely on the price listed for that grade. (What follows might sound a bit strange, but it is true.) You have to look at the coin, assign a technical grade, think about how attractive to you the coin is and how much you like it (subjective, but most agree to some degree on attractiveness), consider how close it is to next grade level, determine how much it would cost you to replace it with a similar coin, and gage demand. Only after all that can you come up with a price level you are comfortable with.

So lets say I have two coins of the same date and mintmark. One I grade AU-50, and the other AU-58. The AU-50 coin looks like it just barely makes the AU-50 grade, and I can't get rid of it fast enough. For this coin, I might price it close to AU grey sheet bid, or maybe even a little less. The AU-58 coin, on the other hand, is a beautiful, lustrous coin with just the slightest bit of friction on the very highest points. It shows hardly a mark. I would just assume own this coin over a typical MS-60 coin that shows no wear, but has lots of marks. For this coin, I might price it very close to MS-60 money, even if there is a big jump from AU to MS-60 in the grey sheet.

I can't tell you the number of times coins brought many times grey sheet bid because of their unusual eye-appeal. And these coins were purchased by some of the smartest coin dealers I know.

One's own perception of a coin's value is the ultimate determination of how a coin is priced, then the market decides if that price is accurate. If the coin sells unusually quick, the coin may have been priced too low; if the coin isn't getting any takers, the coin is probably priced too high.

In other words, it is unnecessary for the grey sheet to list more grades. >>

oxy8890

<< <i>

<< <i>The print is already small enough. Adding specific numeric grades would make the sheet unwieldy and difficult to read.

Russ, NCNE >>





Translation...Russ is getting old and his eyesight is going (but he refuses to wear glasses) >>



Geez Bochiman!

I can barely read the Greysheet print with my glasses on!