Just got in a package from PSA and the box was damaged with NO INSURANCE
NeilDowney
Posts: 840 ✭✭
Hi Guys, A strange thing just happened when I picked up a package from PSA at the post office. When the clerk handed me the large package, I noticed that the box had a few good sized dents on one edge. PSA always packages the cards very well so I didn't freak out at this site. I told the clerk that I wanted to open the package before signing for it, just in case there was any damaged holders inside the box. He told me that I had to sign for it to even open the box to check for damaged goods. Then he said that even if there were damaged goods, I couldn't file a claim because the package was not insured. It was sent via registered mail with deliverey confirmation but NO INSURANCE. This package had a declared value of $2,720. Is this possible that they really sent this package out without any insurance? The end result was that none of the holders were damaged by the dents in the box. However, if they were - what would have happened? It scares me to even think about the fight that I would have had on my hands if the holders were damaged with no insurance. Who would have taken the loss for this insurance mistake? Is it possible that it wasn't a mistake and none of the packages are insured? Has anyone else ever had this happen to them? Neil
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Comments
Its great having a PO employee on here. I only wish that he was my mail man. He probably wouldnt yank on my mailbox like my current one does. I had to replace my mailbox for the second time. This is our third one in 5 years at this house. The one that I just removed, he had bent the metal post at an angle. This one even had a rebar in it to give it some strength. This time I put the metal post in concrete and then put the wooden post and box on. I will be getting some big boulders as well to shore up the front so it cant be bent as easy.
Sorry for that rant.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
In my humble opinion, there isn't, never has been nor will there ever be any insurance on PSA's mailed packages back to submitters. I have asked this of USPS staff at my PO on numerous occaisions and they have verified there is no insurance on my returned packages. Yes, the package is registered and confirmed upon delivery, but there was no USPS insurance.
So that begged the question to PSA several years ago. Why are we paying a shipping and handling fee(s) based upon the declared value of the cards when there is no USPS insurance for the declared value of the cards??????? No response.
In fact, go to the reverse of the gold copy of the submission, and no where is the word "INSURANCE" used except for "You are responsible for insuring all packages to us" and "FEDEX or USPS EXPRESS MAIL: If requested, you must have your own shipping account number and insurance coverage". That leads me to believe that all returned packages
not insured by the submitter are not insured by PSA.
In addition, there is a statement to the efffect that PSA has no liability when the item is not in their custody or control. The what is the Declared Value Fee for? Is it self insurance?
I had this experience with a well known online dealer who "self insured" his packages. He charged a hefty mandatory fee ($3.50) for this single card insurance. So no package ever arrived from him via USPS. I called him and he made me wait 30 days to see if it came. No package confirmed with USPS and within 2 days, he wrote me a personal check for the amount of the card, shipping and insurance. I will never buy anything from any dealer who self insures.
I would like to use UPS but PSA doesn't provide that service. At least I have a base $100 insurance included in their shipping fee, and can add additional insurance to whtever level I feel comfortable. In addition, I can issue a call tag for return shipping and insurance for the declared value and know it is truly insured.
I hope this thread will bring someone from PSA on to clarify what we are and are not paying for.
AZ
You bring up a question. Why doesn't PSA accept UPS service for delivery? I use UPS exclusively for my business and my ebay sales because of the tracking and insurance options. Frankly, using the USPS is a real inconvenience for me.
If anyone from PSA can explain why you exclude UPS deliveries, I'd like to know.
Danny
If anyone from PSA can explain why you exclude UPS deliveries, I'd like to know.
Danny - I had a friend who worked for UPS for ten years.
While I agree that all shipping entities have horror stories, the ones I heard from him about their employees and their doings makes me never want to ship anything of value with UPS.
Just MHO.
<< <i>I hope this thread will bring someone from PSA on to clarify what we are and are not paying for. >>
Interesting information, Hopefully we can get some clarification.
<< <i>i'm not sure why nobody else seems interested in this.... >>
Im not- only because I do not submit cards to be graded anymore, IMO it is a total rip off that keeps getting more and more expensive. Just my opinion!
Aaaaaaaaahhhhh, that explains why PSA is raising their RATES again???????????
This is from the USPS website:
When you’re sending valuable or irreplaceable items through the mail, protect them with Registered Mail™.
Items you send with Registered Mail are placed under tight security from the point of mailing to the point of delivery, and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage. And you can verify the date and time of delivery and the delivery attempts online
and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage.
Hope that helps
George
I would like to hear how PSA handled this type of claim instead of hearing the rumors.
Also, Hubcap mentioned he won't buy from a seller again if they self-insure. Not sure why this is an issue. Lot's of high volume sellers do this and they still will pay out or make good if the the item(s) never arrives. Of course I don't like anyone stealing my insurance money either, but if they make good on it in case the item never appears/get's damaged or whatever, why does this matter?
I'm sure 99% of postal insurance that we all purchase at various times never actually gets paid out on any claims. Yet we buyers still gladly pay for insurance. You're paying extra to have an employee do their job. Most of this insurance money is all a profit center for USPS or UPS and I don't see anyone refusing to use their services because of this.
Most every type of insurance is like this. Do you think other insurer's for health, car, home, etc.... are breaking even? They're making tons money in the insurance racket. It's been going on for years.
Nobody likes paying the premiums until something happens to them.
If you send something REGISTERED mail, you have to DECLARE A VALUE ON IT.
It is the most tracked piece of mail the USPS has. Every time it changes hands,
SOMEONE has to sign for it. So, someone is giving you a line of BS.
Unfortunately, once you sign for it, you are stating that you accept the package
the way it is. I have NEVER signed for anything that would even closely
resemble damage before checking it out. I have even had the POST OFFICE
guy tell me to go get some slicers and let's open it and you can make sure
everything is ok.
I have been sending collectibles through the mail for well over 35 years and
I can assure you that you would have cause, that is if you HAD NOT signed
for it.
You know, if we happen to have a postal worker on here, they could probably
shed a WHOLE bunch more light on this subject!
Tony
It's possible that PSA insures their packages through a third-party insurer. That's what I do for packages under $1000: I use a company called U-PIC. It's been discussed on these boards before, but it's common for companies who send a lot of packages to use a third-party insurer, because it's often cheaper, and it's easier to make a claim. I've had to make one claim (in several years) from U-PIC, and it went very smoothly. I've also to make one claim from the PO for a damaged package I received, and it was a big pain in the tush. It wasn't worth the effort to claim the $60.
That all said, I've also seen the dents Neil is describing in some of the bigger packages I've received from PSA. They look like they're from a hook or something that a handler used to lift the package. I can't imagine PSA using such a tool, so I assume it was the PO. It's bizarre, though, since they're supposed to be so careful with registered mail.
If you receive a damaged package, I recommend opening it in front of the postal clerks, as Kaline suggested. I've done this a few times, and the clerks have never minded.
As I see it, I don't care if the PO, a third-party, or the seller provides the insurance, so long as I trust that I'll be reimbursed if the package gets lost or damaged.
Vintage Football Card Gallery
I have 2 post offices within a couple of miles of me. One of them, when you send something registered mail, charges you the extra insurance fees based upon the declared value you put on the package. The other post office doesn't. One says it's included in the normal registered mail fee, and the other says it's not.
When I questioned them about it, they both insisted they were doing it the right way. I even went to the onsite Managers to try and get further clarification, and to inform them that one of the two locations was obviously doing it wrong. They said they'd take care of it.
Maybe six months later, I noticed it hadn't changed so I pointed it out to the Manager again. That was over 2 years ago, and it's still being charged differently depending upon which post office you go to.
The problem seems to be, outside of the obvious fact that I have crappy postal managers, is that the wording on all of the forms can be interpreted 2 different ways.
The signs in the post offices, along with the forms you fill out, clearly state on the front that "Domestic Insurance up to $25,000 is included in the fee."
If you take that sentence at face value, it sure sounds like your item is insured.
However, if you read the fine print on the back of the forms it says;
"You must declare the full value of all registered mail articles at the time of mailing, whether you want to purchase insurance or not."
"With Postal Insurance: You can purchase postal insurance against loss or damage by paying the appropriate fee."
"Without Postal Insurance: You can also send an article by registered mail without purchasing postal insurance by paying the appropriate fee. No indemnity is paid for uninsured articles."
Each sentence basically contradicts the one before it, and since they never identify "the fee" as being either the registered mail fee, a separate insurance fee, or the registered mail fee plus an additional insurance fee ... it can be argued several different ways.
I've seen a few posts over the years where other collectors have been charged (and/or not charged) the extra insurance fees on their registered mail declared values. So it's not just my two locations that are confused. The price difference can be pretty substantial if you're paying insurance fees on something like a $20,000 package.
I keep waiting to see a post, from someone trying to fight a USPS insurance loss claim, where they didn't pay the extra insurnace fee ... and the postal service is just pointing to the fine print on the slip saying ... "No indemnity is paid for uninsured articles!" I'd imagine they could get rid of about half of the insurance claims, just by doing something as simple as that. I'm also guessing that's why their fine print is written in "double speak."
By the way, if you click on the "new shipping rates" link on PSA's front page ... you'll see that the line above the rate chart says; "U.S. POSTAGE, INSURANCE & HANDLING RATE CHART."
However, on the back of the PSA submission forms, it just says, "U.S. POSTAGE & HANDLING RATE CHART."
I'm guessing PSA must have recently hired one of my postal managers.
Mike
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I have sent packages with a declared value of $15k that cost me $13 to ship and I am fully covered. PSA does the same. If you do not have a private policy, the rate would be about $30. happy collecting
From the USPS site:
Items you send with Registered Mail are placed under tight security from the point of mailing to the point of delivery, and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage. And you can verify the date and time of delivery and the delivery attempts online.
Text
chart
The USPS is going to make you wait 28 days as well on a missing package before they will accept a claim. He honored your insurance purchase so I don't see the problem other than him charging 3.50.
<< <i>I had this experience with a well known online dealer who "self insured" his packages. He charged a hefty mandatory fee ($3.50) for this single card insurance. So no package ever arrived from him via USPS. I called him and he made me wait 30 days to see if it came. No package confirmed with USPS and within 2 days, he wrote me a personal check for the amount of the card, shipping and insurance. I will never buy anything from any dealer who self insures
>>
gotta agree with the follow up post on this one as well, what was the problem? If there was postal insurance , it would have taken even longer as you need to wait 30 days then you file the paperwork and they submit the claim which takes up to another month to process. By him self insuring , you were paid 2-4 weeks sooner than postal insurance and there was less of a hassel to prove the value which is what the post office will want you to do.
When I used to use postal insurance , I had to file a claim once and they made me print a copy of the sales slip and I had to show similar items for sale to prove it's value.
Registered Mail is in fact insured up to $25,000. Thanks to the individual who posted a copy of the form. What you have is several Postal Employee's who know little about the fact that registered mail items do in fact have automatic ins. up to $25,000. (at least I found this true at the Post Office I frequent). If you wish to insure a registered mail item for more than $25,000 you simply check the box for USPS insurance and you'll be paying to insure the item for an amount more than the automatic $25,000 of coverage. Seems Postal Employee's tend to ask if you want to insure a Registered Mail item but neglect to tell you that the item is already covered up to $25,000 for loss or damage. I know this from first hand experience at my post office. Never have I been told that my registered mail item is automatically insured up to $25,000 for loss or damage? This even after I've shared with them the info printed right on the form.
This is not the way Postal Employee's should be treating their customers! The Post Office is making money on unsuspecting customers! Most registered mail items would not require additional insurance (unless over $25,000) yet the Postal Employee's ask me everytime if I want to insure the registered mail item? They never tell me it is automatically covered up to $25,000! I was burned once or twice on this before I caught onto the small print on the form indicating automatic coverage up to $25,000 for loss or damage.
PSA is covered on registered mail items up to $25,000 for loss or damage. If they would require more insurance I'm sure they would add it on if need be!
This thread began with a simple question and was followed by several threads of misinformation. I would hope this post and a few others that tried to share the correct information about this topic will clear the matter once and for all......
<< <i>registered mail items do in fact have automatic ins. up to $25,000. >>
where does it say that it is automatic? you need to pay for it at the higher registered mail teirs otherwise it is just a flat registered fee of $9.50
<< <i>PSA is covered on registered mail items up to $25,000 for loss or damage. >>
This is not true as PSA does not declare a value and is not insuring it through the post office or payingthe higher teirs of the registered mail rates.
Why don't you take a look at the scanned form on the previous page of this thread.... It states in small print middle right of the form that the registered mail items are covered up to $25,000.
I see no fine print that says if you don't declare a value therefore the $25,000 in coverage is void?
Yes, it says customer must declare value.... however, nothing says the $25K coverage is void if you don't.
there is no way you are going to have coverage if you don;t pay the registered fee associated with the declared value.
I have my own policy so I could care less, advising someone that they can exploit the system and not pay the minimal extra cost of the registered fee and still have coverage is probably not a great idea because if they do have a problem and are left uncovered , I would not want that on my head that it was because they were misinformed. if you want 10k insurance , the registed fee is $22.15 , if you want zero , it is 9.50 , I am not sure how you can disagree.
for example , you to send a priority package w/ 10k insurance if will cost you $4.6 + 22.15 = $26.75
if you pay $4.6 + 9.5 = $14.10, it will go though the same security but you will not be covered if there is a loss
2.1 Registered Mail Fees
Fees and charges are in addition to postage:
Declared Value
Fee (in addition to postage)
$0.00 $9.50
0.01 to 100 10.15
100.01 to 500 11.25
500.01 to 1,000 12.35
1,000.01 to 2,000 13.45
2,000.01 to 3,000 14.55
3,000.01 to 4,000 15.65
4,000.01 to 5,000 16.75
5,000.01 to 6,000 17.85
6,000.01 to 7,000
7,000.01 to 8,000 20.05
8,000.01 to 9,000 21.15
9,000.01 to 10,000 22.25
10,000.01 to 11,000 23.35
11,000.01 to 12,000 24.45
12,000.01 to 13,000 25.55
13,000.01 to 14,000 26.65
14,000.01 to 15,000 27.75
15,000.01 to 16,000 28.85
16,000.01 to 17,000 29.95
17,000.01 to 18,000 31.05
18,000.01 to 19,000 32.15
19,000.01 to 20,000 33.25
20,000.01 to 21,000 34.35
21,000.01 to 22,000 35.45
22,000.01 to 23,000 36.55
23,000.01 to 24,000 37.65
24,000.01 to 25,000 38.75
when I send a package because I have private insurance , this is what I do.
I declare a value of say 10k, I click without postal insurance. my fee for the registered mail is $9.50 which is the base fee for registered mail, not $22.25 which would give me coverage through the registered mail.
Declared Value
Fee (in addition to postage)
$0.00 $9.50
that little box that says with or without postal insuranec is referring to the coverage provided through the registered fee, not postal insurance which you fill out on the blue form.
I think this is the confusion and why we are in this pointless ridiculous pi$$ing match when we are both tryind to say the same thing
Always looking for 53 Topps Baseball and "stuff"