Question for PSE re: centering and margins on imperfs

coinpictures

None of the stamps shown below are probably valuable enough to justify my getting them graded, I'm just using these as illustrative examples of the issues I'm inquiring about.

I'm approaching the point where I'm considering sending some of my better Civil-War-Era 1st Series Revenues for grading. My concern is with the imperforate and part-perforate issues. The criteria given on the PSE site with respect to centering is worded in terms of evenness of centering as opposed to amount of margin.

What I am specifically referring to is an imperf that has boardwalk margins on all 4 sides, and on 1 or more sides has an *excess* of margin (possibly leading into the next stamp). This actually is a positive thing, but according to the posted criteria, would actually result in a lowering of grade because the opposing margins are not even. Of course I could always trim down the excess margin to make the two opposing sides even, thus raising the grade according to the criteria posted, but that of course would be insane.

Care to share how this is handled?

For a quick example, the stamp below has huge margins, although uneven due to excess at upper left. Would it be penalized for the unevenness as opposed to being rewarded for the excess?



Here's another that has margins that are slightly uneven, although excessive in size.



Better yet, one that has a clear excess on the right. Would the imbalance penalize the grade?



Another example: A part perf. The margins are equal, but due to the manual nature that these were created, at somewhat of a diagonal. Would this be considered detrimental to the grade? (I kinda like the effect personally ).





Also, how do you grade multiples (or do you?). Imperforate and especially part-perforate 1st-series revenues are often collected in pairs or blocks for authenticity purposes, given the sheer number of trimmed counterfeits out there. What if one stamp of the pair is superb but the other one is creased? Is there a net grade assigned? What if the superb specimen is the stamp I am concerned about obtaining a grade for? Obviously I do not want to destroy the multiple for the sake of a grade.

For example, looking at the multiple below, the stamps at either side have issues, but the center stamp has boardwalk "jumbo margins" and the bottom tear is clearly in the selvage. If I wanted to I could trim out the center stamp in such a way as to give it superb appearance and centering, but that obviously defeats the purpose and spirit.

I realize that the criteria posted on PSE's web site are geared primarily towards perforated issues or machine-made coils, since that encompases 99% of the material that will be submitted. Unfortunately, I'm playing in an oddball philatelic area that falls more in the exception rather than the rule.

I'm curious how these issues are handled before I decide what stamps to submit, and possibly spend money needlessly on pieces that should not have been submitted to begin with.

Thanks for your time!



Also, the second stamp from the bottom in this multiple would be a prime candidate... if I were dumb enough to destroy the multiple.

edueku

With imperforate issues the most likely issue is that of best posssible centering!

coinpictures

But that's my point: With imperfs that have excess margins on one or more sides, I can artificially create better centering by trimming part of the excess, which seems antithetical to the intent/integrity of the process.

When imperfs with extra-large, but uneven margins are penalized compared to stamps with smaller but even margins, aren't you creating an environment that encourages trimming of imperfs?

If I have a stamp that because of an extra-large margin on the left is a 90 but by my trimming it to match the right margin it becomes a 95, there is something majorly wrong here (in my opinion).

This is much less of an issue with regular issues, because they were printed much closer together on the sheet, and thus are rarely found with large margins. Revenues were spaced farther apart, so it's possible to find examples that, by comparison, have extremely large margins.

I'm not sure that the same rules can, or should, apply.

Most revenue collectors that I know and have spoken to, greatly prefer an example that have huge margins on one or more sides to one that has smaller margins but even.

For example, take the stamp below. By PSE standards (as published), this stamp presumably would be heavily penalized due to poor vertical centering, when in reality, this stamp would garner huge premiums.




Better example. This is NOT a poorly centered stamp. It is a stamp with ample margins on all four sides, with an excess on the right. If this stamp would be penalized by PSE, then its grading criteria (with respect to 1st series revenues) is completely at odds with the revenue-collecting community...

edueku

I think my short reply was probably a bit confusing. My point was that the "issue" was, what is the best possible centering a stamp could attain with the margins it already posseses and that is what PSE uses as it's criteria for the very sake that anyone can trim a stamp to have perfectly equal margins(but the SIZE of the margins affect the grade too). So if you have an imperforate stamp that has 3 large margins and one not so large it will be graded as if all the margins were possibly equal(or the optimum grade possible). Imperforates IMO fall into a very different category when it comes to grading as opposed to the perforated issues of the same type(i.e. #319 vs. #320) To find a #319 that grades, say 98J, would be MUCH more difficult than a #320 98J which should be a given. Because of this an imperforate issues in a high grade is usually of much lower value in comparison to to an equal perforate issue. If you do not already have the latest issue of PSE's grading guide you should request one from them as they are free.
On being ethical... well is it unethical to seperate an 80 year old perforated issue from a larger multiple? I think most would think not, from a really rare plate block, maybe. The fact is imperforate issues could and can only can be removed from a larger multiple by cutting. And that WAS and the only means of removing a single stamp,block etc(in 1908 and 2007). If someone in the 1950's removed a block of 4 from a block of 8, is that unethical? The original plate blocks cut from a #320 sheet sacrificed the intact sheet, right? There was probably some monetary gain involved, so is that unethical? The fact is an average #320 plate block is probably not worth much less than one 98J from that same block as far as SMQ values go, and probably in the real world market place.Anyway I'll try to write more later let me know what you think.

covers

Why do you all care so much about a number? In the old days, an imperforate stamp was judged to be very fine if the margins were at least one-half the distance between stamps when printed and was not faulty. That definition has always worked for me. If all margins exceeded that amount, and the stamp was lightly or clearly canceled, it would rate a grade of extremely fine (a U.S. term not used by most foreign collectors). I think collecting very fine stamps to be easy enough without worrying if it is a 95J or a 98, 98J, etc. Use your eyes for margins (as well as knowledge about spacing as printed).

PS - I don't think PSE even grades revenue stamps but I may be wrong.

coinpictures

<< <i>Why do you all care so much about a number? In the old days, an imperforate stamp was judged to be very fine if the margins were at least one-half the distance between stamps when printed and was not faulty. That definition has always worked for me. If all margins exceeded that amount, and the stamp was lightly or clearly canceled, it would rate a grade of extremely fine (a U.S. term not used by most foreign collectors). I think collecting very fine stamps to be easy enough without worrying if it is a 95J or a 98, 98J, etc. Use your eyes for margins (as well as knowledge about spacing as printed).

PS - I don't think PSE even grades revenue stamps but I may be wrong. >>



As with the certification of coins, the primary issue really is saleability and ease of liquidation down the line. Like it or not, professionally graded stamps command better prices than ungraded ones, with certified ungraded examples falling somewhere in the middle.

Granted, all of the certs I have (I think I have about a dozen or so) are ungraded, as authenticity is a HUGE concern with imperf and part-perf revenues. But as long as I'm considering getting a stamp authenticated, I might as well have better ones graded as well...

According to PSE's schedule of fees and services, they do indeed grade revenues.

A few examples:

Link 1

Link 2

KentuckyJ

> Why do you all care so much about a number? In the old days,


LOL. Richard, you are so out of it.

(just kidding!)

KJ

covers

Coinpictures - thanks for the links. First graded revenue stamp I've seen.

KJ - I am out of it .... no kidding! I have never viewed stamps as a commodity or an investment vechicle and am totally befuddled by the current twin markets, graded and ungraded, that exist for US stamps today.

edueku

Richard I meant to write earlier on this thread,so why are you "befuddled?" About grading in general, or the "twin markets", and what does that mean exactly? I think the graded market is more consistent than the ungraded.