eBay item: Am I handling this the right way?

airjoedan

First off, I have changed the player's name to "- -" in this post as I do not want anyone to bring up the auction as I do not want to badmouth the seller until their final reply.
--------------------------------------------------------------


While the cards are not that expensive and come from a seller with a high feedback rating, they simply do not match up to any authenticated ones I have when closely examined. The entire first name in the signature is what I call "an obvious forgery". While this is not a very expensive athlete anyway, I was still upset to receive these autographs and sent the following message to the seller:

"Hey, I received the cards today and must say that the - - autographs on these cards do not match the authenticated - - autographs I already have. There are several things about them that do not match at all. How can we arrange a refund process on this? Please let me know and thanks again for your time. - Joe"


The seller replied a day later saying:

"I only offer refunds if there was an error in the listing. These were not listed as auntenic nor did they come with a COA. I obtained these at a card show as I stated in my auction. From what I researched on them the signatures match exactly. If you want authentication you do need to purchased items that have a COA. But I do not want negative feedback and am a VERY honest ebayer I am willing to refund shipping amount or a portion of the final sale. Please let me know if this works for you.
Thanks"


I was kinda upset that such a big deal would be made out of refunding $12.50 - what good would it do to refund the shipping price? I sell a lot of autographs on eBay and if someone ever feels uncomfortable with one I feel as an honest seller I should always refund their purchase price. With this in mind, I then sent this reply:

"I have several signed - - items and the first name of these cards are very different than what I have, I do not believe them to be authentic. I am not concerned with the shipping price, I will send you your cards back and was just hoping for the $12.50 auction price back. They were listed as - - signed cards and any item listed under the autograph category requires the seller assume responsibility for authenticity of an item. These signatures just simply do not match to any that I have. I have no intention of leaving negative feedback, I value my feedback as much as you do - I just do not want any questionable autographs in my collection and do wish to have my purchase price refunded. I am willing to take the previous shipping as a loss and the shipping back to you as a loss. I really just want to send you back your cards and whenever you receive them I would really appreciate the $12.50 back. Please let me know if you are willing to work this out with me. Thanks again, - Joe"

After 5 days I have not received a reply and decided to sent this final message tonight:

"Hey, after not receiving a reply to my last email, I'm assuming you are not willing to work through a refund process for the - - cards. For the simple fact that this auction was only for $12.50 I will not leave any feedback as I am not satisfied but did, in fact, receive the item in the photograph. I will be sending your cards back to you and you can do with them as you please, I do not have any desire to keep autographs I feel questionable in my collection. After 6+ years of eBaying this is the first transaction I've had without a resolution. Anyways, you should have your cards back within a week and I do not expect anything in return for them as nothing was offered. Thanks again for your time, don't worry about feedback as I will not leave any for this transaction. Thanks, - Joe"



--> Okay, now my question to you: am I too upset about this auction? I mean, $12.50, all considering, isn't that much money to lose on such a sale. However, I feel that when an autograph or card is questionable, a refund is in order. If all sellers were to claim "it wasn't listed as authentic so I can't refund you" doesn't that mean that anyone and everyone can forge items and list them on eBay and not have to refund innocent buyers? From the bad photograph in the auction, the autographs looked good - however, they definitely were not a match to any of the similar autographs that I already own. I even checked countless examples onilne... I know I'm also not doing any justice by not leaving feedback, but I don't want to risk my rating over a $12.50 auction either. I'm still kinda upset how the seller pretty much said "it didn't come with a COA, too bad" - anyone can print a COA, that means absolutely nothing. Am I being stupid and stubborn about this? Do you think the seller will reply? What would you do? Just call it a loss and forget it? Thoughts...please.


Thanks,


- Joe

grote15

I believe you're being extremely professional and fair. It's unfortunate that he's chosen to ignore you instead of working things out. Did you pay through Paypal? If so, you can file a claim with them and they will freeze his funds for the amount of your payment. I'm sure if you did that you'd hear from him immediately. He's obviously just hoping by ignoring you that you'll go away, rather lame for a transaction of only $12.50, IMO, and very unprofessional on his part.

bhelser

You have been more than fair and courteous. I think you should leave feedback, If the auction listed return/refund as an option I say a negative is warranted, if it did not than a Neutral is warranted. You shouldn't be afraid of a retalitory feedback. If people don't leave (-) feedback when it is factual what is the point in having feedback in the first place. If you receive a neg and future potential buyers/bidders can't see the reason...they probably aren't a bidder/buyer you want.

mcolney

I agree. Neutral or Negative feedback is appropriate. Feedback is important for the next person that will bid on and win those cards when they are relisted. At the minimum, Neutral feedback gives the bidder some information as to the authenticity of the autographs when the cards are relisted.

jimq112

I agree also, it's not the dollar amount that's important. If this seller learns that it's ok to sell bogus autographs for $12 then he can move on to bigger and better deals, and somebody who maybe can't afford to just write it off will get hurt worse than you will.

I also agree that a retaliatory (-) doesn't matter.

Just leave a calm sensible neg, not a screaming all caps one. Warn future bidders who are smart enough to listen.

bullrat

Neg the h@ll out of him and if you used paypal go for a full refund - item not as described. A negative from a bad seller is a badge of honor. If you want to really get him on the neg, do what I did on one of my badges. Scanned the card and using something like photoshop marked all the bad corners, etc. on what was supposed to be a high grade card. Put it in photobucket and on negative referenced location - his only reply was that's not card he sent. Unscrupulous dealers must be outed for the good of all and one who will cheat for $12.50 is probably worse than a big hitter. If you want to go this route and need help setting up, let me know.

gonzer

Joe, small point, but IMO it would be better to omit the "Hey" when starting a letter. From a business standpoint it automatically puts that person on the defensive. Otherwise you're handling the situation admirably.

CDsNuts

Whether it states it or not in the auction, every item that's sold on ebay is refundable, especially one that is clearly not authentic. He's saying he won't give a refund but doesn't want a neg. Well, he can't have it both ways. If he's willing to risk the neg and losing a customer over $12.50, he deserves the neg and deserves to lose business because of how he handled this transaction. To be honest Joe, I'm not sure why you're being so nice about it. You took the time to search out this item, put thought into a final bid price, paid in a timely manner, and received a piece of crap. You clearly got ripped off, but don't want to cost the seller business by leaving a neg or sharing his name on the boards. You've been more than fair in your emails, and this guy's trying to walk over you.

Lee

airjoedan

Thanks guys - I do agree that I would not be doing the feedback system any justice if I don't leave the appropriate feedback. I will send the items back to him tomorrow and was actually planning on waiting a few days to see if he contacts me once he receives them in hopes of a refund. He never left feedback for me......so I know I would get a retaliatory and I have to be honest I am uneasy about losing the 100% rating as it has been 7 years and 800 or so transactions in the work. Based on his response once he receives the product, I will deem whether a final negative/neutral is acceptable and will most definitely share the sellers name and auction - this was a powerseller with 99% feedback. Does that sound reasonable? -- waiting a few days for him to receive it and for a possible response? It's not the money in this particular transaction that matters so much, it's most certainly the point.


Thanks,


- Joe

vintagetoppsguy

I am not taking the seller’s side here, but didn’t you see a picture(s) of what you were bidding on? By your own admission you said that you have known examples of the player’s autograph, so didn’t you see that the two didn’t look the same? I guess my point is, if this is the case then why did you bid in the first place???

I feel that the seller doesn’t owe you a refund because you got the item that was in the picture(s) and if there were any questions about the authenticity, you should have asked at the time. Now, if there was not a picture in the auction listing or it was blurry or distorted, then I am totally wrong and I will shut up. In that case, the seller owes you a full refund.

muchuckwagon

<< <i>
I will not leave any feedback as I am not satisfied but did, in fact, receive the item in the photograph.

These signatures just simply do not match to any that I have.
>>



My $0.02.....

You got the items as shown in the auction....you have other autographs of the player. Why did you wait until the cards were in hand to do your homework? This is something that you should have done before placing a bid.

eBay is not Walmart....you can not buy something, take it home....try it out and then decide to return the item. If the auction description is accurate and the item is delivered in the condition as described....buyer's remorse is not valid reason for a return of an eBay purchase.

However, I am not going to agrue with a buyer over a $12 item.....just issue a refund.

262Runner

He says in his reply to you

<< <i>These were not listed as auntenic nor did they come with a COA >>

That alone is a violation of ebay rules. If these are not listed as authentic, then are they listed as not authentic?

I say wait a couple of days, if you do not get your refund, File a paypal claim and give him the neg he deserves

bullrat

<< <i>I will send the items back to him tomorrow ... >>



I would not send the items back until money issue straightened out.



<< <i> - this was a powerseller with 99% feedback. >>



If he's a powerseller with much feedback and only 99% feedback rating, he must be used to getting negatives.

rube26105

ive had people neg me over charging 49 cents too much postage, lol-id neg him, hell get over it lol,everybody has to take a few lumps everynow and then
Randy

jimq112

<< <i> Now, if there was not a picture in the auction listing or it was blurry or distorted, then I am totally wrong and I will shut up. In that case, the seller owes you a full refund. >>



I saw the auction he's talking about and it's one of those retarded photos at an angle with wrong lighting and 3 cards laying on a table. With the angle and the poor picture it's impossible to tell. When he posts the pic you'll see that you described it exactly.

You look at a seller with 2300+ positives and 2 negs and you think you're ok and they just don't have good skills. This seller sells some bad autos and hides behind not having a coa. If the autos are bogus throw them away!

airjoedan

Hey, so I got this reply today:

"Just so you know, Ebay is not my full time job so I am not able to get on the computer every single day. I do not want the cards back and I did offer a refund on the shipping. What I don't really understand is why you bid on the cards when there were very clear pictures of the cards as well as the signatures. If you didn't think they looked the way they should, I guess I don't get why you purchased them. My auction was very clear in stating there was no COA however they were purchased at a card show and are authentic. I can't back down when there was no error in my listing. I will refund shipping if you would like to return the cards.
Thanks"


The last name on the autographs looked great from the photos however the forger was unable to duplicate a very distinctive part of the player's first name on these fakes. The picture was not very good and the only reason I bid on the auction without asking for a better photograph was the fact that the seller had great feedback and from what I could see in the photograph the autographs looked fine. My whole problem with this transaction is the fact that this seller is basically claiming that it is okay to sell anything you want on eBay and not be held responsible for fraud because "you bought it at a card show" or "it doesn't have a COA". ANYONE can print a COA, that means absolutely nothing. If I buyer contacted me one year from now and said that an item of mine did not pass PSA/DNA I would still refund his money. On something like this, if a buyer felt uncomfortable with my item (whether it was an autograph, vintage card, or anything other sensitive material) I would refund them without a doubt. I find this to be good business and most definitely honest. I can't believe the seller is not willing to work this out.

You guys may seriously dislike me for this, but I really can't leave them feedback as I would be even more upset having a negative on my perfect feedback record. I know it really wouldn't mean much, but it does to me as I have had enough luck to keep it at 100% for years without having to ever give in like this. I do not believe the seller forged the items, I believe they bought the cards like they said they did - however, these cards are not real and I do feel they need to accept the responsibility for selling fraudulent merchandise. I have thought it over and I really would be more upset with a retaliatory negative as I know for sure I would receive one (as this is just over a $12.50 item - though the principle of the thing does bother me!)


Thanks guys,


- Joe

vintagetoppsguy

Your first sentence states,

<< <i>The last name on the autographs looked great from the photos... >>



And then your next sentence states,

<< <i>The picture was not very good... >>



So where the photos good or not? Can you post pics of the auction?

airjoedan

Here is my final response and the items will go out tomorrow. I do apologize for not sticking to the feedback system but like I said, I have decided I would be more upset with the negative.

"In 7 years of eBay and over 800 transactions, this is definitely the first time I've had this sort of response to a problem. The photograph in the auction was not that clear and I bid with confidence because I saw your wonderful feedback rating. This particular player has a very distinctive letter in his first name, the "R" that is always signed the same in all 100+ autograph examples I have seen - this autograph does not match. As for refunding shipping price, how is that helping me? It's not the amount of money in this instance that bothers me, it is merely the principle of being sold a questionable autograph. I'm no longer asking for a refund as it is obvious I will not receive one. I will not leave you feedback as I do not want to receive any retailatory feedback that is undeserved. I must, however, send back your cards as I do not want to possess any potentially fraudulent items as they would compromise the integrity of my collection. Like I said, I don't expect anything in return but I would not feel right keeping these items in my collection. I'm sorry we couldn't work anything out and like I said, let's please avoid a feedback issue as I'm not leaving any because I don't want any retaliation. - Joe"

airjoedan

<< <i>Your first sentence states,

<< <i>The last name on the autographs looked great from the photos... >>



And then your next sentence states,

<< <i>The picture was not very good... >>



So where the photos good or not? Can you post pics of the auction? >>




The cards were signed across the front and the first name in the cards happened to be in a dark area. Since the last name looked fine and the seller had terrific feedback, I felt very comfortable taking the chance. This is only the 2nd auction I've asked for a refund for in 7 years of eBaying - they were digital camera photographs from like 5 feet away with cards sitting on a table. I do not want to post a photograph as I do not want the seller to think I am badmouthing him, or her (in this instance), on a public message board. I really do not want trouble from this and don't want a negative as this simply isn't the normal outcome for my purchasing activities.

- Joe

mknez

Why return them as-is? The seller will most likely relist these. Why have a less knowledgable buyer get stuck with a bogus item in the future. If you do send them back, punch a hole in the middle or mark them in some way. After all, you paid for them, they are your cards.

rube26105

you pay it with paypal??get your $ back there,or file a claim against him, that put the fear in crooks real quick,and your $ will come right back,so you might get a neg,big deal,everybody get one sooner or later,ive had almost 40,000 transactions and 11 negs,you cant please everybody all the time, and i quit kissin people azz on there a long time ago,i dont even attempt too anmore,theres always some nut out there!!!
randy

mcolney

If you are not going to give him feedback then please protect the other fine members of this board and reveal the auction number. How am I every going to know I'm dealing with a less than up and up seller if he has great feedback. Look at my seller account <mcolney> I have one neg. out of 970 pos. I'm proud of that neg. (and it was for a purchase I made) because the guy was a crook and going around ebay rules. He wouldn't see me the card because it didn't meet his Return Policy Detail which went against ebay policy.

#320102873782 sb9sports (119)Link

Return policy details:

Refunds are 100%
ALL (NM and GRADEDitems)*MUST sell for HALF/BOOK value*

CONDITION IS EVERYTHING!

I SELL NEARMINT CARDS/MERCHANDISE .

It was worth the neg. to shut this guy down and, as you can see, he is no longer selling on ebay. My guess is when I start selling some 1960s and 1970s football cards at the end of the month no one will care about my one neg. nor will any seller care that I have only a 99.9% feedback rating.

bullrat

Why send the card back, so he/she can sell it and double their money with the "bought it at a card show with no COA spiel"? Pretty sure cannot change your mind, but have gotten three negatives as a buyer and have given out more than that. Of all the negatives I have been a part of maybe one seller is still on ebay. Leaving a well thought out negative, not a rant, possibly makes other buyers more willing to state the truth about a seller rather than giving the seller the benefit of doubt because he/she has such good feedback.

Take this guy/girl. He/she deserves a negative. You do nothing, but send card back to him, it is sold it to some rube who wouldn't know a Mickey Mantle auto from a Micky Mantle auto and gets positive feedback. Puts up another "card show bought without COA" auto which gets bid on because of his/her excellent feedback. License to steal or least make autos.

redsfan

From your previous entries:

The picture was not very good and the only reason I bid on the auction without asking for a better photograph was the fact that the seller had great feedback...

and

You guys may seriously dislike me for this, but I really can't leave them feedback as I would be even more upset having a negative on my perfect feedback record.

First, it's not about disliking you, it's not about that at all, but your logic is fuzzy at best. You were willing to buy from a seller because they had great feedback, had a lousy transaction, and still allow him to keep his great feedback. That is what defeats the entire feedback system and sets up other buyers to have bad transactions with sellers that have great feedback.

Second, good luck having PayPal help you. If the seller sends you ANYTHING, even a partial shipment of what you purchased, PayPal will step aside and claim this is a dispute between the buyer and the seller. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS pay with a credit card through PayPal. That's were you can get true buyer support and protection. I've had first hand experience with this.

Good luck with this and I hope you decide to leave honest feedback. You will get a chance to respond to the retaliatory negative. (This also happened to me - got my first negative after leaving a neutral for very slow shipping.)

airjoedan

I completely agree about it being bad logic to not leave a negative.......I want to leave a negative. However, I can't express how pissed I would be to receive my first negative over something like this. The seller doesn't seem to typically sell autographs so I don't think this will be a problem in the future.....but I know I should leave a negative. I really really don't want a negative in return though. Stupid...I know. :-(

- Joe

bullrat

Well, then tell us who and what it is, so we can buy it with a credit card on paypal next time and leave the negative.

WinPitcher

tear them in half and send them back!

Neg him too


Steve

DeutscherGeist

One thing all this reveals is how much of a nice gentleman Joe is!!
I don't think its entirely foolish for him to avoid a negative over $12.50. I can see how hard he worked for his perfect record. I feel much better about buying something from someone with perfect feedback over several years because I know they will at least respond to my discontent. Sellers with 99% come in all types.

I would file with paypal over this, but I guess you feel that it would bring you a negative. I don't think in such cases the seller is allowed to leave feedback.

Anyway, eventually, you will need to at least out this guy after some time passes and he can no longer neg you. Outing a guy is justice, its not bad manners.

262Runner

So much for the feedback system. This guy deserves the Neg if anybody ever did. So you have 100% and it may drop to 99.99% if you get a Neg, but you get to put your comments on your neg.

I think some get a little over attached to their feedback. As long as your feedback is above 99.95% you will not be affected especially if your only neg came from a situation like this.

Another example of why you should have a buy account...

airjoedan

Actually...I've never thought of having a "buy account" before. That actually sounds like a great idea.