Launching a new grading co. (not cards)

PSASAP

My apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum. I'm starting a new grading service (not cards) that deals with music memorabilia, specifically picture sleeves. For collectors unfamiliar with sleeves, I've included a photo of one. The problem I'm having with the business is that many who collect picture sleeves haven't accepted third party grading as a viable part of the hobby, while card collectors, who know the importance of them, don't generally collect picture sleeves. What I'd like to accomplish is to get music collectors to adopt third party grading into the hobby, and at the same time, introduce the hobby of picture sleeve collecting to the PSA crowd. I'm trying to find individuals who wish to work part/full time, have an enthusiasm and desire to build a business, and live in the SF Bay Area. You can PM me for more info. Thanks for reading this.

Blackie

Neat idea...........Good Luck with this venture..............

ArnyVee

Very nice.....good luck!

roastedcat

Do you have a website? how big are the holders? and how much would it cost to slab them?

MorrellMan

Is the record slabbed inside? Is it just 45s?

PSASAP

Thanks for the inquiries. The record is not slabbed, just the picture sleeve. Right now, it's just 45's, because the case is very expensive, for me, to produce. The case is 8" x 9", the label size is 5" x 3/4". I have a website up (still needs work) at picturesleevegrader.com.

thedutymon

Good day,
Is there really a Market for these, I have a box of 100 or so old 45's from the 60's. Most are in sleeves, but aren't a lot of the sleeves by Record company basically Generic?
Thanks for the info
Neil

Stingray

Could you imagine price for the original Beatles White Album graded a 9 or 10 in one of those holders.

PSASAP

It's true that most 45's were released in generic paper sleeves, and those sleeves have no value. It's strictly the picture sleeves that collectors are after. The sleeves are extremely condition sensitive, as most records were left inside the sleeve, causing ringwear, split seams and creasing. To find a truly mint sleeve from the 1960's, such as a Beatles picture sleeve, is a very rare occurance, probably on par with finding a PSA 10 vintage card.

thedutymon

Good day Again,
So if they aren't in Gem condition, are sleeves from the 60's worth anything??
Neil

PSASAP

Yes, just like you'll find cards in grades all the way from PSA 1-10, with the concentration of the grades being PSA 3-8, you'll find the sleeves in varying conditions. The current state of grading for the picture sleeves is a three level system: near mint, very good plus, and very good. It is similar to the way the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards works, and we all know that graded price guides bear almost no relation to price guides for raw cards. So for the really clean, high end picture sleeves, there is no reference guide to differentiate between a mint sleeve and one that is near mint, the same problem cards had years ago.

smtjoy

Cool idea and good luck.

transparent

Hi,

I am both a serious PSA graded trading card collector, and rare 45 w/picture sleeve collector. I have many 45's worth hundreds of dollars, and the condition of the picture sleeve is very important to me - but I hardly value them at all without the actual vinyl record that goes with them, in similar condition.

I may be way off base here, but I wouldn't even consider getting my records graded unless you graded both the sleeve AND the record and slabbed them together. Just the picture sleeves.... I didn't even realize that people collected them without the records.

I also have a record label of my own, TRANSPARENT RECORDS. I know from doing my own label, that there are usually many many sleeves left over when a release is done. I probably have 10,000 extra sleeves (full uncut with the printer's lines and notes, cut but unfolded, folded but not glued, special variations used for test pressings, printing errors, etc...) sitting around from only 25 releases... if they were not issued with records, I can't even give them away.

Paul H.

PSASAP

Picture sleeves, independent of the record, are generally worth as much, if not more, and in many instances much more, than the record it came with. To illustrate an extreme example, the Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" single in near mint condition is worth around $20. The picture sleeve, which was controversial at the time, was withdrawn quickly after its release. One recently sold in an auction for $15,000! You could call that sleeve the Honus Wagner of picture sleeves, because of its colorful history and extreme scarcity.

transparent

I hear ya. I'm a record collector, not a picture sleeve collector. I am guessing that those are two different types of collectors altogether.

And, I'm exclusively into PUNK ROCK. 45's are rare and valuable (Misfits, Minor Threat, Negative Approach, Dead Kennedys, etc.) but in this genre we mostly collect for the music and the vinyl....

Paul H.

MorrellMan

I've been aware of picture sleeves and album covers as collectibles for a while, and as my own collection spent a lot of time on the floor and turntables, I don't suspect much of what I own is better than fair to very good - but the success of third party graders has been pretty much predicated upon the demand for authentication, maybe even moreso than the call for an objective third party opinion regarding grade. Is there much counterfeiting or alteration going on in the picture sleeve hobby?

PSASAP

As far back as the 1970's there were counterfeit Beatle picture sleeves floating around. I used to see them at local record stores, and they were easy to spot. Now with the advances in technology, it would be much easier to produce a high quality fake. And with Beatle sleeves selling for hundreds of dollars in high grade, the incentive for crooks is there.

Wabittwax

Good luck in your venture. I would suggest that the absolute #1 thing to make your grading company successful is instilling confidence in collector's that anything in your slab is 100% authentic. Many card grading companies come and go because once the general collecting base realizes that altered cards are getting into their holders on a widescale basis, the market falls apart for that company and they go under. PSA and SGC are so successful because of collector's confidence. From what it sounds, you really have an opprtunity to own a market, just make sure that anybody you hire is the best of the best at spotting fakes. The actual grade is secondary to authentication in the grading world.

PSASAP

Thanks to everyone for the kind words and encouragement. I really think this hobby could take off, and am extending an opportunity to those who are seeking a new and exciting career. It isn't imperative that you live in the Bay Area, but a willingness to travel would be required. Send me a PM, and I'll answer any questions you may have. Thanks again for your support, Duane

ROCKDJRW

Great Idea however I agree with transparent. I have several records I would love to get slabbed and graded but I wouldn't seperate the vinyl from the 45. I also have some very rare punk 45's that it would be very easy to counterfiet the sleeves (as some are even hand made by the band) so without the record it is essentially worthless. Great idea but please rethink your stance on not including the record. Keep us posted!

PSASAP

PSASAP

metalmike

This idea is money money money! Include set lists- ticket stubs - ect, ect I vote way better than comic books. I do own a signed Gwar comic, so how would you'all know it's real?

ElectricPrune

Those are really cool. I wish I still had an original "My Sharona" sleeve. Nice rack!

Do you have a picture of a slab with the data/grade on it? Will you do bootleg sleeves too?

PSASAP

Electric Prune,
For your viewing pleasure, I've included the Knack pic sleeve, plus one of my graded samples. To answer your question, I will not be grading any unauthorized sleeves.
Cool name for a handle. For 100 points, can you name their hit song?

PSASAP

Sorry for the missing pictures. Apparently, I've exceeded the 50 megs allowed for posting pics.

ElectricPrune

Wow, very cool looking. Are they grades of 1-10? And thanks for the "My Sharona" pic.

I might actually be interested in one as a Christmas/Chanukuh gift for a friend. He has put out a few things himself, but many would be bootlegs. Will you CD Sleeves?

PSASAP

Here's a link to an ebay auction where the sleeve is going for 4 times the price guide.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270167596595&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:2

PSASAP

Sorry, here's the link without the cut and paste:
Text

ElectricPrune

ASAP,

Are you ale to give an approximate cost? Also, what is your turnaround time? Close to PSA's $5 specials?

PSASAP

I don't know if I can go as low as $5/sleeve, but I will have specials. I will be setting up a dealer network so that dealers can take in submissions and make some money for their efforts. The cool thing about picture sleeves is that they are just as avidly sought in other countries, England, Germany and Japan to name three, as they are here. My goal is to make this an international website in which collectors from all over the world will contribute to the hobby. If you get the chance, please take a look at my website www.picturesleevegrader.com

ElectricPrune

I was just joking about turnaround time for PSA's specials. They are known to be quick in grading the $5 specials lately.

I'm going to try to dig one up, and get back to you.

rube26105

very cool website,i would imagine there would be a ton of interest in something like this, i have aton of 45s with sleeves anything from buddy holly/elvis/jerry lewis/black sabbath/anybody that spoke in the 60's really thru anti nowhere league-i like the old 50s ones as they were alot better made and stonger,like the elvis one you have on your pics there,alotthinkcer paper in that era that 60's up
randy