Do FRANKLIN Registry collectors place as much importance on "Pass and Stow" as Teletrade d

braddick

No where else do I see this term used but in Teletrade auctions: "Pass And Stow" (on the reverse bell) meaning the coin is struck up well enough to show this faint design detail. They'll also refere to "3 wisps" on the Franklins.
I know Collectors live and die by the Full Bell Lines. Are these other two obscure features important, or is this just Teletrade's way of making a market?

RegistryCoin

When getting to the "nitty gritty" of Franklin collecting, these terms, and points of concern on the coin, have always been scrutinized by high-grade Franklin collectors. Not many Franklins carry the qualities of the strong "3 wisps" or the clearly visible "pass and stow", probably not as many as TT would have us believe. But none the less, TT has provided somewhat of an education, right? Rick T.?

keithdagen

Can't speak for Franklins, although my example has a nice "Pass and Stow." Don't know enough to tell if I have "3 wisps" or not. When I showed my 1976-S Ike in MS-68 to Jeff Saltzman last spring, the first thing he pointed out to me on the reverse was that the lettering in the design was extremely strong, and that this was unusual for as many letters to be distinct as my piece had. Alas, I sold it before Modern Type came along.

Keith

CarlWohlforth

I can clearly see three wisps of Franklins hair in front of Franklin's ear on a proof Franklin. I think I've heard that term before and assumed this is what it meant.

I can make out some lettering on the bell at the top of the crack. I can barely make out the words "Pass and Stow". I can't read what is under it. This looks like Phila. then a date in roman numerals under that on the Ike's version of the bell. I don't have any business Franks but imagine seeing that detail on one is rare.

Thanks for pointing this out! It is like learning to look at the rivets and the hand and date on standing liberty quarters. Type collecting is cool because I enjoy learning these tidbits.

daveyn

Braddick,
That's a good question. As a Franklin collector I often wondered this my self. It's been my opinion for a long time that a coin with a sharp enough strike to display a good Pass and Stow, all curls between the cheek and ear and posses full bell lines are a lot more rare than one thinks. Due to problems with the master die for this series these coin became weaker as the years went buy, this problem was repaired in the 60's. As I understand it , PCGS only requires some detail in these areas to Qualify for MS65FBL. I have a few ms64 and 65 with a great Pass and Stow but still would not make Full Bell. The Majority of my PCGS 65FBLs have a weaker Pass and Stow. I try for the best looking 65FBL I can afford, I'm sure the sharply struck , beatiful coins are around , but I am sure you would have to pay a very high premium.
Hope to hear from DPOOLE and Steve P. (BIG SKY) they have some real nice coins.

Daveyn

ultimatecameo

Braddick -

The FBL designation is a barometer, a benchmark indicator for the strike of a mint state Franklin.

An FBL coin with 3 wisps and legible Pass & Stow indicates a coin with a very strong overall strike, and might be considered superior to another FBL of the same date, but without strong detail in those areas. The earlier issues, particularly the P and D mints, have an advantage in this area, since the condition of the master die also plays a role. The gradual deterioration of the master die through the decade of the 1950's resulted in mint state Franklins that could be fully struck, yet not have as sharply defined Pass and Stow as earlier issues in the series.

There can be some coins which are not quite FBL, but which otherwise have an excellent strike. The most obvious example is the 1953-S, a very expensive coin in FBL. Occasionally I am offered a 1953-S that is 70%-90% FBL and that also exhibits an excellent strike in the areas under discussion. While not FBL, I offer a premium to acquire these coins because of their overall good strike quality.

braddick

Thanks Guys! I know strike is extemely important in this series. Coins in MS66 may price out 10X's the cost of coins without FBL's for example.
Would you agree this series is a bit more stringent than others? Other than FSB's on Winged Liberty dimes and FS on Jefferson nickels, you don't see the qualifiers on other series weigh in with as much importance.

Cocoinut

In looking at some of my early Franklins, I can read the following:

Top line: A Roman numeral, not appearing to be 1776, followed by the words "PROCLAIM IN"
2nd line: "IN PHILADA BY ORDER OF" (apparently Philadelphia was abbreviated)
3rd line: "PASS AND STOW"
4th line: "PHILADA"
5th line: "MDCCLIII" the Roman numeral for 1753 (the year the bell was cast, perhaps?)


This detail is lacking on many San Francisco and Philadelphia coins through the mid-1950's, and isn't legible on many of the proofs, either.

I believe the term "3 full wisps" refers to the locks of hair immediately to the right of Franklin's ear. Many coins lack the detail or even a well defined outline of this area. I'm not a Franklin specialist, so maybe someone who is can confirm the location of the "wisps".

I've never seen the Liberty Bell "in person". Does anyone know what the entire inscriptions are? Just curious....

Jim

keithdagen

Liberty Bell Facts

Keith

Cocoinut

Keith,

Interesting link. Thanks. Guess I was just being lazy.

Jim

CJK

braddick,

While I don't place as much importance on Pass and Stow or three wisps as FBL, they are good indicators of the overall strike of a coin (as Rick indicated in his previous reply). So they are important as a secondary factor...(I think Teletrade is using these references to "hype" certain coins that may not have FBLs or to indicate especially strong strikes for coins that have FBLs).