Original White or partially toned commems, vs. the toned monsters?

RegistryCoin

Can an arguement for original white, or lightly, or partially toned commems be made over the monster toned beauties, so popular and valuable in the commem market today?

Arguements for Monsters:
They look really cool, and are really in vogue.
They have "always in the past" been considered much superior to other than fully toned examples.
Monsters usually go for around 2-3-10 times blue.

Arguements against Monsters:
Original commems usually go for a bit above blue, unless their upgrade candidates, then they may go for a bit for.
Potential for monster being AT.
The monster toned pieces usually get that extra grade point due to their eye-popping beauty.
Can you imagine the beauty of an original white or lightly toned, or vibrantly rim-toned coin that happens to get the same high grade as the monster. It's clean enough to see the original luster, and, to be able to see that the coin is actually virtually free of marks, otherwise, it wouldn't get the grade, right?
If the monster toning was gone, would the monster coin be mark-free enough to get the same grade?

I can think of a more arguements against.
Can you think of any more arguements for?

ModMan

If I can pick up a PQ example of an early Commemorative with blazing surfaces and light, pastel rim toning for 5X's less than the same coin in "Monster Status" I'll take the first one.
It's all about quality, but isn't the lesser priced one likely to increase in value/collector demand (same thing, right?) at a higher rate than the Monster? Then again- maybe not.

The other side tells me it's better to have two or three absolutely KILLER coins- full Moose status, then fifteen of their lesser brothern.
Tough choice Steve. Mind bending.

keithdagen

RC,

I would consider it on a coin by coin basis. Looking at my beloved Texas commem, I have seen some wildly toned pieces in high grade that tend to wash out the design. However, you can find some lightly toned pieces that accent the design. Other commems may be the same way. Light toning enhances the design more than a monster toning would.

Keith

RegistryCoin

Very good point, Keith. Yes, monster toning takes on an image and character of its own, making you appreciate the coin on different levels, seeing the toning on a different level and separate from the coin's design, itself. I'm not sure, maybe this additional level along with underlying luster, if truly free of marks comisserate with its grade, may make the coin worth the 2-10 times values they are getting.

solid

White vs. lightly toned (which could cover all/most of the coin, or rim toning)

I prefer an attractive, lightly toned piece over the white one because it (usually) implies originality, whereas chances are good that the blazer has been dipped. For the balance of my post, I'll lump these two together and call them white coins.

White vs. Monster-toned

If I'm building a type set (or a 50-pc commem set), I would be happy either way, and the white coins would probably cost a lot less. I enjoy all of the coins because each one is different.

If I'm building a series set (date/mintmark), or a 144-pc commem set, then I much prefer the monster-toned coins. When you have a set of basically indentical-looking coins, you can appreciate that some are rarer than others, but when you actually get them out to look at them, they are fairly generic.

With monster-toned coins, however, each one is unique. You enjoy looking at each one of these coins EVERY time you get them out. These coins just make you say WOW, and that is worth a lot!

Ken

RegistryCoin

Well, all your comments make me feel pretty good, in fact, great, as I have not many of those toned monsters, very few in fact.
I also have very few brilliant white coins, except for some BTWs and 10-20 or so others, that may be rare in white in their own right.
The balance is nicely, but subtly toned, mostly rim-toned beauties.
Thank you for your comments.

coingame2000

I love monster toned commems and have been buying and selling them for nearly a quarter century.

In December 1985 I bought a MONSTER toned 1926 Oregon form John Highfill at a Las Vegas coin show for $1,000 (bid was $250). Shortly thereafter one of my good customers (Eugene Spier)offered me $1,000 for the coin. I told Gene that I didn't buy it for resale and that it was too much money anyway. He persisted, I sold him the coin and ultimately assisted him selling his collection at the January 1987 Mid-America F.U.N. sale where it realize $5,100 (which shocked even me)!

I use the image of that coin on the inventory page of my website and you'd be surprised how many people ask me if I know where the coin is today. Moreover, I have a (serious) standing offer of $10,000 for the coin if I can locate it.

Additionally, I was the source for 95% of the coins that comprised the fabulous Harold Rothenberger 144 piece commem collection, which rivaled the Larry Shepherd collection in terms of grade, eye appeal and MONSTER color. Harold paid big numbers for most of the coins. His collection was auctioned by Superior on January 31, 1994 under the worst possible circumstances (the devasting Northridge earthquake took place two weeks earlier and most of the big commem buyers were absent from the sale -- a case of earthquake phobia). Regardless, most of the MONSTER toned commems fetched many multiples of Bluesheet and Greysheet bid!

MONSTER toned commems consistently fetch big bucks even under adverse market conditions, if you can find them. The fact is that the people who generally buy MONSTER toned commems love them, pick the time and place to sell them and profit handsomely.

I know that MONSTER toned commems aren't for everyone but I sure think they're cool and am willing to put my money where my mouth is. ALWAYS IN THE MARKET FOR MONSTER TONED COMMEMS.

Best Regards,

Mike De Falco

Cocoinut

I tend to agree with Keith D. on this issue. I like toning that accents, but doesn't overpower the design. I don't care for brown or black toning that's so dark I can't see the design, because it's usually etched into the metal so much that the luster is gone.

RC, I also sometimes wonder what monster toned pieces would grade if they were white, with all their blemishes more visible. From a technical standpoint (number of nicks & dings), I think the grading services are more forgiving when it comes to toned coins. I don't believe it's justified, and examine any toned coins VERY carefully before buying.

Jim

Barndog

after reading some related information on another coin site, I thought this thread deserved resurfacing

bigbadchad777

BRIGHT WHITE IS BEAUTIFUL!

RegistryCoin

Well, that's another post from The Wayback Machine, but six wives later, eight kids now in college, two in private high schools, and twins due in six weeks, my coin budget has suffered a bit, so now I'm limiting myself to just monster toned plats.

mrcommem

I like toning only when it doesn't impair the luster of the coin. I try to stay away from hazy or very dark or spotted toning. Light pastels of peripheral toning tone suits me just fine. I also like that icy-blue white coin from some of the issues 1936 commems (San Diego, Cleveland, Iowa). I can imagine these coins being taken out of a roll still being white. As far as this dark, spotted and irregular toning I think it looks like crap and probably has destoyed the surface of the coin.