"Cherrypicking"...do some dealers simply not care?

291fifth

I suspect that some dealers don't care about being "cherrypicked." Why? Because they they really don't believe the items that have been "cherrypicked" have any special value. If offered similar items they would pay no premium, so they charge no premium, either.

PerryHall

Most dealers are happy to sell a coin for more than they paid for it. Let's face it---if you cherry pick a $500 coin for $100, the chances are the dealer bought that coin for $50 or even much less.

coinkat

Most dealers have a business plan... It is highly likely that cherrypicking is factored into their plan

19Lyds

Some dealers may not have the time to examine each and every coin in their inventory for specific die varieties or doubled dies and in the interest of collecting or satisfying a customer, just let you have at it!

Other dealers are so tight that they squeek when they walk and won't let you look at anything!

cmerlo1

I have only ever had 2 dealers at shows ask me to leave their table because I was cherrypicking. Most of the time, they just say 'good luck!'...a friend of mine who was a dealer told me that he simply didn't have the time to look at every single coin in his inventory...

--Christian

mcmxi

My local guy says he prices his inventory with some profit in it so he really dosen't care if I look all day long. Whatever gets someone into the shop. That being said if I had found a coin worth thousands marked for tens I am sure it would upset him. I told him when we first met that if I found anything worth big money I would split it with him. I have found a couple of things that weren't worth big money but I still split the profit with him. Now I am allowed to go get the keys and look at whatever I want in the cases. Last time I went in there I found an O over CC morgan. I told him about it and he reached in his pocket and handed me a $20 bill.

IGWT

-- "'Cherrypicking' . . . do some dealers simply not care?" --

When it comes to die varieties, most dealers who are generalists don't care (except perhaps about Redbook varieties), and they shouldn't. They aren't catering to that segment of the market. And I don't feel bad about not paying a premium when I know that a dealer wouldn't pay me one in return.

fcloud

You can't cherrypick the local dealers around here. If you look too closely at a coin, they study it when you go to buy it and if you cherry picked them, they won't sell you the coin. But you will find it in their cases on one of your next visits marked up.

I think dealers should look at coins when they buy them, so the don't rip off the sellers.

UtahCoin

A couple of years ago we bought a large group of mostly circulated Morgan Dollars (Close to 5,000 as I recall). Four of us sorted by date, then by MM as needed, and finally by grade as warranted. The thought of looking for VAM's would have made me go blind.

TwoSides2aCoin

Cherrypicking, being the art of "finding the needle in the haystack" is part of the joy of commerce.
It happens in commerce all over the world. Dealers must love it when cherrypickers show up. Why not ? It would be a drag sitting in that place all day with no one visiting.

Coins are fun to talk about and share knowledge and history about. There is much to learn about the mechanics, the artistry, the people behind the scenes and the potential profits. But in the end, it is the search that is fun.

It's such a competitive game for some that it's a "NO HOLDS BARRED" game. Villains and Victims ! It's the game of numismatics. In between , some of us are just enjoying the search.

As for cherry picking, I hope
Mike Wallace doesn't mind me sharing his website here.

I received a PM (private message for the novice) from someone who wanted to know the difference in the tailfeathers of the 2000 P Cheerios type Sacagawea golden dollar versus the "regular" issue.
This is as good a place as any to share the knowledge.

Thanks for your many contributions, 291fifth

hiyosilver

A couple of local shops here know me as a VAMMER and have no problems letting me search the inventory.

One shop in particular lets me go through the fresh stuff that walks in, that might be due to the fact that I try to sort the stuff as I go so they end up with piles of Morgans sorted by condition and MMs.

VTCoins

<< <i>Some dealers may not have the time to examine each and every coin in their inventory for specific die varieties or doubled dies and in the interest of collecting or satisfying a customer, just let you have at it! >>



That is the deal with my business.

If someone finds a nice variety, I say more power to 'em. I would never have found it, so why not be happy for a customer?

fcloud

<< <i>

<< <i>Some dealers may not have the time to examine each and every coin in their inventory for specific die varieties or doubled dies and in the interest of collecting or satisfying a customer, just let you have at it! >>



That is the deal with my business.

If someone finds a nice variety, I say more power to 'em. I would never have found it, so why not be happy for a customer? >>



The two of you have a great attitude! I don't think it is the customer's job to find coins for the dealer to mark them up. The business practices of my local dealers keeps me out of their shops, and I rarely stop at their tables as shows.

Greeniejr

It all depends on what is being cherry-picked. If someone wants to spend a couple hours picking through our "assorted stuff" boxes of Morgans, we are not going to going to mind if they pull out a bunch of VAMS. It just doesn't for us to look at every single $12 1921 that comes across the counter. On the same note, chances are you won't get much of a premium when you go to sell them, with the exception of some of the really major and important varieties.

mrpotatoheadd

If someone finds a nice variety, I say more power to 'em. I would never have found it, so why not be happy for a customer?

I know dealers with this attitude, but not all of them are like that. One time, I asked a dealer who I know doesn't like cherrypickers why he felt that way. He said it's because they'll sit at his table at a show for an hour or more going through his binders, and end up not buying anything. All that time, the cherrypicker is taking a chair and tying up coins that could be shown to people who are not looking for unattributed varieties, just the certain dates they need to fill out their sets. And if he (the dealer) does already have specific varieties identified, the cherrypicker won't buy them because he doesn't want to pay current market value- he only wants them if he can get them cheap.

Whether or not you agree with this attitude, there's no denying that there's at least some logic behind it.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>I suspect that some dealers don't care about being "cherrypicked." Why? Because they they really don't believe the items that have been "cherrypicked" have any special value. If offered similar items they would pay no premium, so they charge no premium, either. >>



I think dealers don't care if they've been cherrypicked because they really don't know they've been cherrypicked

seatedcoins

<< <i>

<< <i>I suspect that some dealers don't care about being "cherrypicked." Why? Because they they really don't believe the items that have been "cherrypicked" have any special value. If offered similar items they would pay no premium, so they charge no premium, either. >>



I think dealers don't care if they've been cherrypicked because they really don't know they've been cherrypicked >>



Now do cherrypickers use a loupe at shows or just the naked-eye?

tightbudget

<< <i>Now do cherrypickers use a loupe at shows or just the naked-eye? >>



Both, though usually the former.

ahooka454

my old dealer in philly didnt mind. as long as i would show him what i found. he just wanted to see why i was searching so hard for some stuff. I got 2 really nice 56 type 1 halfs that way. 66+ all day for both. He just laughed...

coinpictures

My local dealer has a longstanding policy: "I don't care what you find, but I don't want to know about it."

He prices things with a profit in mind, but doesn't need to worry about "the ones that got away" or have someone gloating in his face.

Seems fair.

Coxe

Reasonable dealers just want to make their profit and keep the cashflow positive. One guy here in San Diego won't talk to you, much less show a single coin, if you are a known VAMmer or he suspects you are. A good dealer makes a profit recognizing a coin, by grade or eye appeal, that he/she can sell easily enough for more money than he is asked to pay for it. A good cherrypicker adds his own value by being informed and observant. That premium is deserved and the dealer has really no right whatsoever to it. However, it is always the best practice to not blab about who you cherrypicked. I know I do it sometimes for the auction houses though I do realize there is a consignor on the other end.

tydye

I am a collector
Cherry picking can be fun or just the cause of a headache. I do attribute all the coins in the sets I am interested in and it is enjoyable.

But recently I decided to look through some wheaties I had laying around for years. They are not my series. I did find 2 low grade 1917 DDO but only after 4 hours of looking and then a massive headache - not worth it.

Another time I got lucky and found a guy at a flea market selling some 90% washingtons and walkers for under spot - being an opportunist - I purchased with the intent of flipping to my local coin dealer. There was a lot - over 400 face. I spead them out on my dining room table with a copy of the cherry pickers guide. After two hours and another headache I decided it was not worth it. So the next day I dumped them at the dealer. Made a quick couple of bucks on the silver - but I do wish I had those two hours back.

ArizonaJack

When at shows,I usually have a mental list of the most common variaties to look for. I would not expect a dealer to let me sit there with my cherry picker guide and go thru his inventory, but if I see one, I grab it. The serious variety hunting comes later when at home and reholdering into my flips, my own time, my own place.

Variety hunting is part of the joy of collecting IF you have the patience.

nickel

Now there's an interesting post by 19Lyds . 'Some dealers may not have the time
to examine each and every coin.....'
If they're that busy , then maybe a part timer would help them process
incoming coin , and make even more money .

lordmarcovan

Coxe summed it up well.

With most minor die varieties and such, I really don't care about them, and if somebody cherrypicks me, good for them.

If somebody resells something for more than 50 or 100 times what I sold it for, though, then I start to rethink that a little.

When people start talking $20-30K for something you swapped away for less than 75 bucks, it stings just a little.

But at least you've got the story to tell.

19Lyds

Oh Jeez LordM!

And just think, that vest of your's used to be $20,000 heavier!

HighRelief

What a story LordM, cherrypick of the year. Thanks for sharing.

cladking

Ouch!

I hope you don't go through a similar sting if the artefact you dug up in the church yard ever sells.

ArizonaJack

OMG !!!!!

FullStepJeffs

I wipe out every coin show I attend. I highly doubt any of the dealers care.

Steve

garsmith

Some don't know they are getting picked because it's not in thier line of speciality and they just want to turn a profit.

options26

<< <i>Reasonable dealers just want to make their profit and keep the cashflow positive. One guy here in San Diego won't talk to you, much less show a single coin, if you are a known VAMmer or he suspects you are. A good dealer makes a profit recognizing a coin, by grade or eye appeal, that he/she can sell easily enough for more money than he is asked to pay for it. A good cherrypicker adds his own value by being informed and observant. That premium is deserved and the dealer has really no right whatsoever to it. However, it is always the best practice to not blab about who you cherrypicked. I know I do it sometimes for the auction houses though I do realize there is a consignor on the other end. >>



I understand about not rubbing it in their faces, but a sale is a sale. If a known VAMer comes in and wants to buy a $50 coin, whats the difference if he sells it to someone who doesn't know its a variety or the VAMer? It's still a $50 sale anyway you look at it.

I can see people getting upset by leaving money on the table, but they would have anyway. If your so concerned about it, educate yourself and search the coins before you sell them.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I hope you don't go through a similar sting if the artefact you dug up in the church yard ever sells. >>



What, you mean THIS?

I already sold it, to the Dr. Lee mentioned in my tale.






For twenty bucks.


But it was just a random piece o' "junque" to me at the time. I knew the inscription on it was something about the Ming Dynasty, but I assumed it was a reproduction. I still am not as convinced as Dr. Lee seems to be that it is what he seems to believe it is. However, as with the massive cherrypick that slipped my grasp on that 1806 half, I got a good story out of the deal. The "what if" factor makes The Mysterious Ming Medallion interesting. I don't think it would ever be proven one way or the other.

cladking

<< <i> I don't think it would ever be proven one way or the other. >>



...Probably not. And I have doubts about the theory too.

options26

<< <i>

<< <i> I don't think it would ever be proven one way or the other. >>



...Probably not. And I have doubts about the theory too. >>



Really cool story though. I would not doubt one bit that the China and european people visited these lands of ours before Columbus. He only gets credit because we settled it soon after. I can date my fathers side back to South Carolina in 1621, I find this kind of history really neat.

wayneherndon

For the most part, dealers don't check their own inventory for better varieties because the effort is not time justified. The time it takes to look at them vs. what else they could be doing with their time isn't warranted by the return. Unless the person selling them to the dealer notes the variety as part of the transaction, they are bought as common. Dealers rarely check them which essentially leaves them available to cherrypickers.

WH

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>For the most part, dealers don't check their own inventory for better varieties because the effort is not time justified. The time it takes to look at them vs. what else they could be doing with their time isn't warranted by the return. Unless the person selling them to the dealer notes the variety as part of the transaction, they are bought as common. Dealers rarely check them which essentially leaves them available to cherrypickers.

WH >>




Wayne...I agree with you...

another point I might make is that after watching and speaking with a number of VAMers...

Most of them prefer to cherrypick their VAMs...once it is labeled they are not that interested...and very rarely, if ever, will they pay a premium for them...at least when it comes to raw ones...

eyoung429

I have been to several shows and only had one dealer that gave me guff about cherrypicking, what I do is figure if they have 100 raw Morgans on the table then I will tell the dealer that I will purchase at least $50 for the time that it takes me to go through them.

And, No Loupe!! I have over a 85% success rate of R5 or better.....I figure that I would spend about double if I ever used one at a show.

Another thing that I forgot to mention, I may show and tell the coins that I pick up.....but I never tell who I cherried from!!!

claychaser

Earl won't tell you his best fishin' holes either.......

dac076

You can't cherrypick the local dealers around here. If you look too closely at a coin, they study it when you go to buy it and if you cherry picked them, they won't sell you the coin. But you will find it in their cases on one of your next visits marked up.

I don't think I'd want to do business with that type of dealer.

dac076

My local dealer has a longstanding policy: "I don't care what you find, but I don't want to know about it."

I can understand that. No one wants it thrown back in their face when a cherrypicker scores. Maybe that's how some "known cherrypickers" become "known", and why some dealers won't do business with them.

I don't have the time or patience to search for varieties, so if someone finds one, I'm happy for them. After all, they did the research and the searching, not me.

Numis

The owners of the coin shops I deal with are generally good guys. However, they don't want to hear about my success (cherrypicking or otherwise). I no longer tell them about good pickups I have had whether from them or another source. They just don't seem to think I should ever profit as a collector.

DMWJR

I've seen them that let you cherrypick all you want, and then when you ask for a price on a coin, they look at it then for a variety and price accordingly -- allowing YOU to do all of the work. I don't like that approach. I had one dealer who was scratching his head about why I wanted a particular coin and couldn't figure it out. After he sold it to me, he said "Now please tell me why you bought that one??" I politely told him it was just a pretty coin and I liked it.