Vick vs Rose
66Starfire
Posts: 135
in Sports Talk
What is the difference here.
Both convicted felons, both lied, both admitted guilt later, both gambled(NFL rule tougher).
Why is everyone talking about bringing Vick back?
The only difference I see is race. Im not racist, but I thought laws &
punishment were made non-color and are to be applied as such.
Both convicted felons, both lied, both admitted guilt later, both gambled(NFL rule tougher).
Why is everyone talking about bringing Vick back?
The only difference I see is race. Im not racist, but I thought laws &
punishment were made non-color and are to be applied as such.
0
Comments
<< <i>As well as gambling Vick has the notoriety of fighting and killing dogs . Some people think this is a bad thing. >>
I hate him for that, I just don't see it as being as bad for sports as gambling. Gambling is the worst crime a player can commit against the sport itself. It threatens the integrity of the game. We are all into this because we think the outcome is not scripted. Without that the sport loses everything.
I will also forgive Vick if he can turn this into a positive for animal rights. He certainly has that opportunity.
lighten what he has done.
The Nfl rule on gambling is tougher,it doesnt state just betting on football.
It states: Life time ban for engaging in any illegal gambling.
I think its up to the commish to inforce the policy,regardless of
race or who the athlete is.
Rules are rules,shouldnt be changed depending on players name or race.
Just my 2 cents
There's bad for sports and there's bad for the human race.
Betting is bad for sports.
Killing/maiming/fighting dogs is bad for the human race.
Look at OJ Simpson. What he did wasn't bad for the sport of football. Is it bad that he is reviled the world across? Or is that another racist slant from bigots like myself?
<< <i>Rose bet much more heavily than Vick as far as I can tell at his point. Rose bet on basball. Vick bet on his dogs. They are worlds apart to me. >>
but rose didn't kill his players if they lost.
rose is a degenerate gambler.............vick is a brutal killer
lot of difference.........don't want either one around my kids
Oh, by the way, Rose should be in the hall of fame...no jobs in baseball, but hall of fame? Absolutely.
Vick should do jail time and serve a suspension from the NFL and THEN be given one more chance.
Rose screwed up because of his addiction, Vick screwed up because he is inhumane.
That is all I have to say about that... ( From the great Forrest Gump, am American hero )
was hanging out with, maybe that should have been a wake up call or something.
You are missing the rule in NFL: Lifetime ban for any illegal gambling!
Obviously you didnt read the thread. Lottery,casinos are not illegal.
NFL rule,not mine
You can take a thug out of the ghetto, but you can't make him into decent person... all you get is a thug with money and no values.
Vick was and is a tremendous athlete, but he was never a good quarterback; just a running back pretending to have an arm.
<< <i>BigD:
There's bad for sports and there's bad for the human race.
Betting is bad for sports.
Killing/maiming/fighting dogs is bad for the human race.q]
I completely agree. My point is that the NFL needs to protect itself first when it lays it's suspension. I didn't miss a watching a single game or buy one less souvenir because of OJ or Rae Caruth. But If I thought the games were fixed then I wouldn't have bought the NFL package this year.
I'm not sure if the racist thing was addressed to me, but I don't see anything racist about giving a criminal a suspension. Nor did I call anyone a racist. I was trying to ignore that part of the whole thread. It doesn't seem like a factor to me.
Straight from the National Baseball Hall of Fame:
10. Voting — The Committee shall consider all eligible candidates and voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.
<< <i>Straight from the National Baseball Hall of Fame:
10. Voting — The Committee shall consider all eligible candidates and voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted. >>
And your point is? The baseball HoF is not regulated by MLB, so someone banned from baseball isn't automatically banned from the Hall of Fame.
INTEGRITY and CHARACTER.
rose has neither, nor does he show remorse or the ability to change his gambling habits. He will not be going into the Hall anytime soon, maybe after he dies he will stop gambling....maybe.
You are correct the HoF is not regulated by MLB, therefore they can elect/ not elect anyone they want as long as the candidate meets their criteria. Did you catch the part about integrity and character? While Pete Rose certainly has the stats to merit selection, he lacks the integrity and character that are also required.
<< <i>And your point is? The baseball HoF is not regulated by MLB, so someone banned from baseball isn't automatically banned from the Hall of Fame. >>
While they may not be regulated by the MLB, banned from baseball means banned from the Hall. Check rule #3 of the Rules for Election at the Baseball HOF site.
3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:
1. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
2. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
3. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
4. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
5. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.
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Murderers have served less time in prison than Rose has been banned from baseball. It's time to elect Rose and heal this wound, and move on.
Vick may not be given the option. If pacman gets kicked out for a year for his shenanigans, Vick pleading guilty to a littany of federal offenses and lying to the commish and his owner will undoubtedly be 5 years.
edit: I'd put Rose in the Hall the day after he dies though.
Bosox1976
And put Rose in the day after he dies? Good god that seems awfully mean-spirited. As I said before, people convicted of killing another human being don't serve as much time as Rose has for betting on games he's managed. I think he's more than served his time, it's time to put him in the hall of fame.
Vick will not play in the NFL again. Is there a team dumb enough to waste the time, money and bad publicity on a guy that strangled and drowned dogs with his bare hands? not very likely.
As bad as what Rose did is, it does not even come remotely close to what Vick did, and I'm frankly astonished to see anyone that does not understand this. Brutality towards defenseless animals is one of the most despicable acts that "humans" can commit. The only crimes that are on that level are rape, murder, & torture of humans or children. It is truly a sadistic "person" that can even watch something like dog-fighting and the torture and murder of those dogs that "didn't perform adequately", and the fact that Vick actually did these things himself (including the brutal killing of dogs) puts it on am entirely different level! As disburbing as this is, it makes me even more sick to hear people try and legitimize or downplay both what Vick did and dog-fighting in general. This is truly a sad commentary on what our society has "evolved" into.
As bad as gamling on your own sport is for that sport, it cannot and does not hold a candle to what Vick did. The guy should serve significant prison time and not be allowed back into the NFL. In fact, if he is allowed back, I will not watch any games and boycott all sponsers of the NFL, and I'm sure I will not be the only one. Yes, the guy deserves to make a living once he's out, but I would be happy to see him flipping burgers at McDonald's, not living the high life of an NFL player again... he certainly gave up that privelage a long time ago!
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<< <i>Vick will not play in the NFL again. Is there a team dumb enough to waste the time, money and bad publicity on a guy that strangled and drowned dogs with his bare hands? not very likely. >>
You obviously don't know a thing about the NFL. They said the same thing about Ray Lewis, yet he's one of the most popular players in the league. Vick will have a number of teams lining up to sign him, and to think otherwise is as naive as it gets
The public outcry over Vick far exceeds the drama surrounding Lewis. He will not play in the NFL again, no team is that stupid.
<< <i>Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice, a misdemeanor. The prosecution in the case didnt have any evidence that Lewis participated in the crime itself. Totally different scenario. Apples and Oranges. He wasn't suspended by the NFL and he paid a large fine. He served no time and successfully complete his probation. >>
He was involved in a double murder. The public's perception was he there and was involved, and he has rehabilitated his career and was on the cover of Madden. Keep in mind this was the murder of human beings, not animals.
<< <i>The public outcry over Vick far exceeds the drama surrounding Lewis. He will not play in the NFL again, no team is that stupid. >>
Look, we get it. There's no need to state over and over again how you think he won't play in the NFL again. It will be nearly 2 years before that decision is made, let's allow the NFL to make that decision.
Rose agreed to a lifetime ban. "Serving his time" means the duration of his life - no more and no less. The next day he should be eligible. Nothing mean-spirited about it, just what he himself bargained for.
Bosox1976
As bad as gamling on your own sport is for that sport, it cannot and does not hold a candle to what Vick did. The guy should serve significant prison time and not be allowed back into the NFL. In fact, if he is allowed back, I will not watch any games and boycott all sponsers of the NFL, and I'm sure I will not be the only one. Yes, the guy deserves to make a living once he's out, but I would be happy to see him flipping burgers at McDonald's, not living the high life of an NFL player again... he certainly gave up that privelage a long time ago!
This is exactly why I started this thread. Again,we as a free society, MUST enforce
our laws, NO MATTER THE ATHLETES NAME OR RACE, OR HOW MUCH TALENT THEY HAVE!
NO SPECIAL RIGHTS
<< <i>
As bad as gamling on your own sport is for that sport, it cannot and does not hold a candle to what Vick did. The guy should serve significant prison time and not be allowed back into the NFL. In fact, if he is allowed back, I will not watch any games and boycott all sponsers of the NFL, and I'm sure I will not be the only one. Yes, the guy deserves to make a living once he's out, but I would be happy to see him flipping burgers at McDonald's, not living the high life of an NFL player again... he certainly gave up that privelage a long time ago!
>>
So you're saying you're going to boycott all NFL games and all sponsors of the NFL when Vick comes back?
<< <i>This is exactly why I started this thread. Again,we as a free society, MUST enforce
our laws, NO MATTER THE ATHLETES NAME OR RACE, OR HOW MUCH TALENT THEY HAVE!
NO SPECIAL RIGHTS >>
Nobody is asking Vick to have special rights, he broke the law, he will serve his time, he'll be allowed back into the NFL. The special rights you seek are those against Vick. You (and others here) seek special rights prohibiting a man from gaining employment in the league he's in now for breaking the law. You want special treatment to extend against him. You want the place he works in now to ban him from re-entry. Sorry, that sounds pretty un-American to me.
1. Veterinarian
2. Fluffer
3. Human Guinea pig
4. Professional ball washer
5. Massage therapist
6. Juggler
7. Evangelist
8. Roto Rooter guy
9. Male prostitute
10.Message board monitor
11.Thug
12.Thug's Assistant
13.Body Bag inspector
14.Human cannonball
15.Oprah's boy toy
16.Steadmans boy toy
17.Deion Sanders Wing Man
18.Burger Flipper
19.Fry Jockey
20.Hobo
21.Stylist at Fantastic Sam's
22.Color commentator for the AKC dog shows. "damn that's a fierce poodle!"
List of jobs he wont be doing.
Playing for the NFL ever again.
1. Lawyers that committ offenses either criminal or ethical are disbarred meaning they can no longer work in their chosen profession.
2. Doctors that committ offenses either criminal or ethical lose their license meaning they can no longer work in their chosen profession.
3. Members of the military that get dishonorably discharged can no longer serve in the military.
4. Felony DUI offenders can lose their hack/ chauffers license meaning they can no longer work in their chosen profession.
There are many more examples. I don't consider this un-American. Every American including Michael Vick has the option of obeying the law and not having to worry about losing their "privilege" to work in any field they choose.
Bosox1976
Thats exactly what Im talking about!!
Listen to how many are trying to forget about this rule because its "Michael Vick"
Enforce the RULE
<< <i>The people who are saying Vick shouldn't be suspended for life should just come out of the closet and say "I have too much invested in Micheal Vick cards for him to get suspended for life." >>
I just think there should be a way for him to turn this into a positive for animal rights. I would like to see the guy come back and be a spokesman against cruelty to animals. He still has credibility with the crowd that actually does this crap.
The best Vick card I have is an Upper deck MVP rookie. Probable worth a dollar, if that, before all this.
<< <i> Every week in this country people are prohibited from working in their chosen profession. >>
<< <i> I don't consider this un-American. Every American including Michael Vick has the option of obeying the law and not having to worry about losing their "privilege" to work in any field they choose. >>
Well said and great point. The Job I have right now requires a background check and I could not hold this job if I was convicted of a felony.
<< <i>The people who are saying Vick shouldn't be suspended for life should just come out of the closet and say "I have too much invested in Micheal Vick cards for him to get suspended for life." >>
I don't own a single Vick card.
The people who are saying Vick should be suspended for life should just come out and say they love to see people built up and then torn to the ground because it makes my miserable life seem tolerable.
<< <i>
<< <i>The people who are saying Vick shouldn't be suspended for life should just come out of the closet and say "I have too much invested in Micheal Vick cards for him to get suspended for life." >>
I don't own a single Vick card.
The people who are saying Vick should be suspended for life should just come out and say they love to see people built up and then torn to the ground because it makes my miserable life seem tolerable. >>
Sorry, my life is quite grand, so that thoery doesn't hold water. I also had nothing against Vick prior to the disgusting acts he commited came to light. I thought he was overrated but I didn't have anything against him. I guess I'm just sick and tired of seeing these pampered athletes pee away their priveledged position and make crappy roll models for our kids.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The people who are saying Vick shouldn't be suspended for life should just come out of the closet and say "I have too much invested in Micheal Vick cards for him to get suspended for life." >>
I don't own a single Vick card.
The people who are saying Vick should be suspended for life should just come out and say they love to see people built up and then torn to the ground because it makes my miserable life seem tolerable. >>
Sorry, my life is quite grand, so that thoery doesn't hold water. I also had nothing against Vick prior to the disgusting acts he commited came to light. I thought he was overrated but I didn't have anything against him. I guess I'm just sick and tired of seeing these pampered athletes pee away their priveledged position and make crappy roll models for our kids. >>
Gemint, I feel exactly the same way!
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