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Official Future Football HOF rookies-- What cards to add to sets

DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
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Discuss....

FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
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Comments

  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    No one until after the season..

    My "next in line" guys:

    Walter Jones
    Warren Sapp
    Brian Dawkins
    Jason Taylor

    I can't think of any other active player who could possible do enough in one season to warrant be adding..All of these guys are close enough that one more dominant season and you've got to consider them strong HOF candidates.

    For seniors, the only guy I think worth adding are guys who aren't senior candidates yet. This is Gradishar's last year..If he doesn't get in as a modern I think he would be a solid senior candidate.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Moss if he has another 1300 - 10 TD season?
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  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Moss adding a 1300 yd season with the Pats would be like Jamal Lewis having another 2000 yd season with the Browns.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    I agree w/ Jason's list. In addition, how about Fred Dean and Andre Tippett. Both were finalists last year.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
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  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭


    << <i>Moss adding a 1300 yd season with the Pats would be like Jamal Lewis having another 2000 yd season with the Browns. >>



    I guess my attempt to be a bit tongue-in-cheek failed. image
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  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree w/ Jason's list. In addition, how about Fred Dean and Andre Tippett. Both were finalists last year.

    Regards,

    Greg M. >>



    Well, since we aren't adding until the end of the season we will know the 2008 finalists at that point..If both are finalists again I would agree to that. But neither had ever been a finalist before last year when it seemed like the committee was intent on pushing pass rushers but couldnt decide which one. I think Dent and Derrick Thomas should and likely will go in over both of those guys and when that happens the puss for pass rushers will subside...

    Moss and T.O. are both going to need enormous end of career stats before they become really good HOF candidates, because of all of their issues..One more seasons worth wont be enough for either IMO...2 more big ones and they're in the conversation...Now if Moss OR T.O. end up with 150 catches, 2,000 yds and a Super Bowl ring we may have something there...lol...Being realistic in my choices though...lol

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • BillsGridironGreatsBillsGridironGreats Posts: 719 ✭✭✭
    Personally I would like to revisit using the SP Authentic cards for the future HOF players. I agree that we should pick upper value cards, but I am not in agreement with picking limited or numbered issues. At 2000 cards, the manning is $500-600 and the Brady $800-1000. Would you rather pay $800-1000 for a Starr/Unitas in PSA 8 or a 2000 Tom Brady. I think Brady is an awesome QB, but we should not be putting cards like that in the set. The Tomlinson chrome fails into the same category.

    Thoughts?

    I think we have too many kickers, I think Elam needs to wait his turn. He certainly will not go ahead of Gary Anderson or Morten Andersen. And he isn't the clutch guy Vinatieri is.

    I would add Donnie Shell to the list.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Personally I would like to revisit using the SP Authentic cards for the future HOF players. I agree that we should pick upper value cards, but I am not in agreement with picking limited or numbered issues. At 2000 cards, the manning is $500-600 and the Brady $800-1000. Would you rather pay $800-1000 for a Starr/Unitas in PSA 8 or a 2000 Tom Brady. I think Brady is an awesome QB, but we should not be putting cards like that in the set. The Tomlinson chrome fails into the same category.

    Thoughts?

    I think we have too many kickers, I think Elam needs to wait his turn. He certainly will not go ahead of Gary Anderson or Morten Andersen. And he isn't the clutch guy Vinatieri is.

    I would add Donnie Shell to the list. >>



    As far as the Registry goes, I was initially against using serial numbered cards as well. But PSA is insistent on using the very popular ones like 1998 SP Peyton Manning...Its an issue that has been worked and discussed endlessly already. The worst part to me is that we still don't have a set in stone, official no lower than number from PSA...Collectively here, we came to the conclusion that 999 was probably the lowest individually numbered card we wanted to use, but PSA has no rule in place. Unless they do, in the future you could see a card serial numbered to say 100 in one of the sets. Hopefully that day never comes...lol

    Concerning Elam, what you have to remember is this is a FUTURE HOF set..We wanted active players who, if they continue on their same path, will eventually be HOF players. This set was built to be very fluid..If Elam falls off or Tomlinson gets hurt or Holt..Any of the active guys, they can be pulled off the set. With Elam, you have to look at his point totals. He's at 1,672 points in 14 years of play. If you take his average of 119 points per year and spread it over 6 more years, the guy is going to end up right beside or past Gary and Morten Andersen (Elam would be at 2386). Not to mention he is the co-owner of the NFL record longest FG AND wears a couple of Super Bowl rings..I know the argument is that only ONE kicker is in the HOF, but the era of kickers scoring huge points for their teams just started in the 80's..Your going to start seeing more kickers get into the HOF. It is now a specialized position, when in the past it was usually a player who was also either a QB or a OT and played another position.

    Lastly on Donnie Shell..He would need to be a finalist again before I would consider him a likely HOFer. He had his look by the committee and didn't get in. When he becomes a Senior candidate I would definitely vote to add him to that set. But the modern guys we are looking for likely and not just possible guys. Could he get in one day? Its possible..Will he? Probably not...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    For Senior Candidates, I've changed my mind on Jack Kemp...I think he should be added as should John Hadl. In addition, I would like to see Del Shofner, and possibly even Billy Howton added.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • GabbsGabbs Posts: 163
    I really agree with Bill on the numbered card issue.
    I was always against using numbered cards for the Registry, especially for
    a set as popular as the HOF RC set.

    I'm not sure why PSA would want to limit the number of people that could
    participate in a set like HOF RC's? (or any other set for that matter)

    As the registry continues to grow, how many collectors will need Tomlinson's Topps Chrome rookie to fill a set they
    may be working on?

    HOF RC's
    All time Charger set
    10,000 yard rushers
    team of the decade
    2001 Topps Chrome .. etc,etc,etc

    Not to mention all the hard core Charger fans/collectors that would want
    to add this card to their collection (whether PSA graded or not)

    I just think that somewhere down the road numbered cards will
    limit the number of people that could participate


    Just my 2 cents

    Gabbs
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I just think that somewhere down the road numbered cards will
    limit the number of people that could participate


    Just my 2 cents

    Gabbs >>



    This was my argument as well...Seemed to make sense...As I stated, PSA still hasn't defined how low they are going to go on numbered cards for these sets...What happens when we start adding cards from 2003/2004? There are TONS of individually numbered cards that are not inserts or parallels and many are numbered as low as 100 or 500.

    I'm fairly certain Cosetta and BJ got sick of hearing from me on it last year, but if someone else wants to take up the cause have at it..lol

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    I don't think the current makeup of cards can change, can it? I have a Tomlinson '01 Topps Chrome PSA 9 now, and I would be ticked if the card gets changed down the road. Will current composition cards stay?
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think the current makeup of cards can change, can it? I have a Tomlinson '01 Topps Chrome PSA 9 now, and I would be ticked if the card gets changed down the road. Will current composition cards stay? >>



    SHOULD they stay the same? Absolutely 1000%...WILL they stay the same, only PSA can answer that.

    As I said, the issue with individually numbered cards is one we had back a year or two ago PRIOR to any 1998 SP Authentic or 2000 SP Authentic or 2001 Topps Chrome cards ever being added, anf the decision was to include them. Based on that, my next concern was where to draw the line? So far, we are down to 999 (Tomlinson), but who's to say in the future a card won't be added with a max # of 100 or 500?

    I wish PSA would definie it now, rather than waiting until we cross that bridge and then its too late.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    My argument, at least for now, would be that there are 68 registered HOF sets, and the team sets currently have no more than 5-10 particiapants. The Rushers I think is around 30. That being said, a card serial numbered to 999 should be more than sufficient to meet the demand of registry collectors. It's part of the chase. There are only a handful of Plank and Wagners for the T206 set but they are in there. I don't think we should allow cards that are # < 999 however. There is always a topps chrome or bowman chrome equivalent. The problem we're running into there though, is that the bigger name rookies are only going to have an autographed version from those sets. I think those two are largely considered the "Tier 2" sets for rookie cards. Things like SP Authentic, Exquisite, Contenders. Leaf Limited and SPx are all going to have a jersey or autograph with them. The Heisman set got bad in that they started using all kinds of weird cards. Topps DP&P Chrome, the regional DAC Heisman set, Contenders autographs that are numbered, or short printed to <500 copies. Then you had the base topps issue for Bush and Leinart.

    I would just like to see some consistency and a decision made before it becomes an issue.
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  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I would just like to see some consistency and a decision made before it becomes an issue. >>



    Luckily, we did finally get PSA to post these standards which cuts out all the autographed/game used/jersey/insert type stuff:

    HOF and Key Card Sets:
    Additions to the HOF and Key Card sets are possible. Every year new HOF inductions are made. In addition, some players may have performed well enough in recent years to warrant addition to All-Time sets. In some cases only one card will qualify for addition to the set. In some cases, several cards may qualify and members participating in the set will be polled for their opinion. The majority vote will determine which card is added. If less than 50% of the members polled respond, then experts at PSA will select the card for addition. If a rookie card is to be added, the card selected must be considered one of the most popular and no autographed, jersey or insert cards will qualify.

    Unfortunately, it was after the Heisman set, which was basically "grandfathered in" so they wouldn't have to delete a bunch of cards. I think they will in the end, have to do the same for the individually numbered cards. If/when they ever put a set # on it (like no less than 999) then any cards already in sets with less will get grandfathered.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That being said, a card serial numbered to 999 should be more than sufficient to meet the demand of registry collectors. It's part of the chase. >>



    I agree with this. Going less than 999 can get a little dicey, but keeping the cutoff at 999 or higher seems more than reasonable. These sets are and should be about collecting a player's best, most coveted mainstream rookie card, and I would hate to have to start buying lesser rookies just to fit them into a set. It costs more, yes. But that's just the way it is.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Sorry envoy, didn't catch the sarcasm.

    Richard Seymour has to be on the list. If his career ended today I think he gets in. Rod Smith also has a good chance. He, Jimmy Smith and Isaac Bruce have had practically the same career. It's eerie how close all their stats are, so if one gets in, I think all three do. Ty Law gets in with a two more solid seasons.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    Richard Seymour has to be on the list. If his career ended today I think he gets in. Rod Smith also has a good chance. He, Jimmy Smith and Isaac Bruce have had practically the same career. It's eerie how close all their stats are, so if one gets in, I think all three do. Ty Law gets in with a two more solid seasons. >>



    Seymour a HOFer if his career ended today? No way..Its already tough for defensive lineman, and while Seymour looks like he is on a path to the HOF he's only been in the league 7 seasons. He won't go in unless he can put in at least 3 more good seasons.

    Rod Smith I wouldn't argue with adding. Although the stats between Bruce, Jimmy Smith and Rod Smith are comparable, Rod Smith was the least spectacular of those 3. If all 3 were up for HOF voting I would guess that Rod Smith would get the 3rd most votes. His yards per catch is going to hurt his chances (ask Art Monk).

    Ty Law will be interesting case when he becomes eligible. I think the HOF Committee is going to be looking very hard to find HOFers from the great Patriots run this decade. Other than Tom Brady, I don't see anyone else who is a "lock". Law might get some play from that perspective, as he had his best years during that run. Whats going to hurt him is that they won WITHOUT HIM. Not to mention, 5 Pro Bowls is somewhat average for a CB. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in, but I wouldn't say he is a definite or likely HOFer. More like a possible.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    What would be Richard Seymour's rookie card if we were to add him to the Future HOF set?

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    OK, I guess in my head Seymour has played longer. But looking at his career so far, he's been a Pro Bowler every year except when he was a rookie. 2-3 more typical seasons and his name will start getting mentioned with the all time greats. I guess I jumped the gun on him now by saying he'd get in if his career ended now.

    Also, like you said, this Pats run might go down as the last "dynasty" (even though it really isn't one) in pro football, so I agree that they will be looking for reasons to let people in- kind of like the 70s Steelers. Not saying none of those guys didn't deserve it, but certainly playing on a great team inflates everybody's stats and makes them look better individually. In 20 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see Brady, Bruschi, Law, Seymour, Harrison, Viniateri, and maybe McGinest all in there.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    Also, like you said, this Pats run might go down as the last "dynasty" (even though it really isn't one) in pro football, so I agree that they will be looking for reasons to let people in- kind of like the 70s Steelers. Not saying none of those guys didn't deserve it, but certainly playing on a great team inflates everybody's stats and makes them look better individually. In 20 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see Brady, Bruschi, Law, Seymour, Harrison, Viniateri, and maybe McGinest all in there. >>



    I don't know about that..Look at the Team of the 80's- San Francisco 49ers. Whos in the HOF? Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, and Ronnie Lott....Obviously Rice is going to get in, but thats not a huge roster of guys like the Steelers have in. I think the biggest reason is that most other dominant players for the 49ers and the Patriots were never great for long periods. But rather very good for a few years and then moved on or moved out.

    Team of the 1990s- Dallas Cowboys..HOFers? Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Larry Allen..Who else? No other locks for the same reason mentioned above. I guess you could count Neon Deion as a Cowboy. Might get Haley in, but he was only there a few years as well...The days of teams like the Packers and Steelers having 10+ HOF caliber players are over...The Pats will be lucky to get 4 guys in..Brady and Belichick are locks, Vinatieri is almost certain..After that there are plenty of possibles but no definites, although Seymour, Brushi and Law are going to get some play...Such is life in the modern NFL..

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What would be Richard Seymour's rookie card if we were to add him to the Future HOF set? >>



    My guess would be 2001 Topps Chrome, since that's the set we use for LT2.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What would be Richard Seymour's rookie card if we were to add him to the Future HOF set? >>



    My guess would be 2001 Topps Chrome, since that's the set we use for LT2. >>



    Duh - Sometimes I really not as smart as I think that I am image

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
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