Why do you think Bonds belongs in the MLB Hall of Fame?
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Posts: 1,771
in Sports Talk
First and foremost, if you don't think he belongs, this isn't the thread for you. So please, no negative comments, no asterisks, none of that belongs here. There are threads for that, this isn't it.
Everyone knows the guady numbers. 758 (and climbing) home runs, 7 MVPs, etc. etc. What about the things that sets him apart?
One thing I have to wonder about is how many more home runs he would have if teams didn't walk him at unprecedented rates. 2543 career walks (by far and away the most, 353 ahead of Rickey Henderson), another record that will never be broken. 679 of those walks were intentional, again blowing away #2 (Aaron has 293), and another record that will never be broken. With those obscene number of walks come ridiculous on-base percentages, another record that will likely ever be done, single season OBP of .619 (he owns the second best season in .581).
Another reason? How about 514 career steals, 32nd all time.
3 of the 5 best single season sluggigng seasons of all time.
When it comes down to it, he's the best player of his generation, and it's not even close.
Everyone knows the guady numbers. 758 (and climbing) home runs, 7 MVPs, etc. etc. What about the things that sets him apart?
One thing I have to wonder about is how many more home runs he would have if teams didn't walk him at unprecedented rates. 2543 career walks (by far and away the most, 353 ahead of Rickey Henderson), another record that will never be broken. 679 of those walks were intentional, again blowing away #2 (Aaron has 293), and another record that will never be broken. With those obscene number of walks come ridiculous on-base percentages, another record that will likely ever be done, single season OBP of .619 (he owns the second best season in .581).
Another reason? How about 514 career steals, 32nd all time.
3 of the 5 best single season sluggigng seasons of all time.
When it comes down to it, he's the best player of his generation, and it's not even close.
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Comments
Because it's obvious and it will be on the first ballot - guaranteed.
<< <i>He doesn't! >>
Exactly. It will be proven that he took steroids.
If he is not proven guilty by the time of his eligibility, then vote him in. However he will not get that far.
Those that accept the "everyone was doing it" theory are an example of our continued acceptance of lowered standards.
Good god, and you people call me disruptive?
pot, kettle, black
The test cases are simple: McGwire... denied. Palmeiro, will be get the door slammed in his face. Same with Sosa.
The honest truth is Bonds was never going to the be the all time homer champ without steroids, but he was going into the hall. His decision to take drugs and lie about it will cost him the HOF.
<< <i>How difficult is it for people to follow some simple guidelines while posting? >>
Wow...gee...yeah...you really got us there...uhhhh...because you suck?
Bonds is the most dominant player of his era...no one even comes close. Take away half of those nearly 700 intentional walks, given his rate of about a home run per 12 at bats, and you get about 30 more home runs.
Take away the steroids, hgh, testosterone and Barry might well be retired by now; give him those 30 homers, sure, but take away how many from the roids? how many has he hit the past few seasons? wipe em all out.
p.s. perhaps you could start giving richie sexon some roids' looks like he could really use something to help his career from ending.
<< <i>Back on topic.
I think Bonds belongs in the Hall of Fame because there are plenty of americans that love liars and cheaters. When Bill Clinton said " I smoked pot , but did not inhale ", look how many bozo's maintained their support for him. When he said , Raffy style , with his finger , " I did not have sex with that women ", again look at all the bozo's that still maintained , that's my boy. Some americans love liars and love cheaters. They love BARRY and BILL. Many years ago, the people choose the murderer Barrabas over Jesus . They love how Barry's face looks so sickening compared to what he looked like in his early carreer. They believe its from the roids , but they don't care , because some americans love cheaters and liars.
Back in the 30's , when there used to be public debate allowed concerning evolution and creationism. There was a debate between the ACLU's Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan who were the main participants in the scopes monkey trial. In the middle of one of these debate( which was really about , GOD being kicked out of the classroom ) , a DRUNK staggered up to the podium , during the middle of the debate and addressed Darrow, " You get him . We're counting on you . "
Face it , there are people out there that thought all those Duke boys, were guilty as sin . They needed for them to be guilty, even if they were not, because it pointed to a bigger truth. The liars that pronouced them guilty , had the following of a lot of people. These are the same people that want Barry in the Hall. It does not matter if he cheated. It does not matter if he lies. He is their Goliath, their Judas, their Bill. Their CHAMPION!!
Whoe unto them that call good evil and evil good. Stand up and be counted.
Bottom line - it is what it is and it was what it was...no asterisks...Bonds performed better than anybody else in his time and many other players were using steroids as well including pitchers.
Nobody should believe that Bonds was a superior homerun hitter to Ruth - Bonds just had more of them that's all. Just like nobody knowledgeable about baseball would say Pete Rose was the best hitter of all time just because he had the most hits. But a record is a record, and in my opinion Bonds will go in the HOF on the first ballot no matter what these investigations uncover.
As long as he didn't gamble on the games - LOL.
If Barry was not such a Butt-head all these years, or played for the Yankees (AROD), I'm sure the discussion about Bonds would be a lot different.
Why the Hall-Of-Fame, easy, Barry Bonds is the most dominating player of his time. His stats are unmatched. Homeruns are only one part of his success. 7 MVP's would alone put in the HOF.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids = 7 MVP's
then
steroids X 100 to the 7th power = 700 Home Runs
then
steroids + steroids + sterroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids + steroids and so on and so on =
Whacking monster home runs at the age of 43 when EVERY other great HOME RUN hitter went lower and lower and lower
toward the end of their careers....I am trying to think of one single great home run hitter who hit 35 or more home
runs in the "NON-STEROID" era...anyone?
Anyway, that is what I am reading from all the people who DO NOT believe Barry Bonds is for real.
I'd love to do a study on the average age of people who believe he's a HoFer, and those who don't. I'd be willing to bet that its the old timers by and large who don't think he is, where the younger generation does.
Now these are some analogies that even Barry himself would be shocked over...C'mon man, that crap is just sheer hyperbole. And I'm no Barry fan by any means.
Bottom line like SteveK said, Barry is a first ballot HOFer even without the juice. You could argue that the steroids enabled him to get the record, but regardless, the negativity about him breaking the record makes you wonder if even Barry himself thinks "was it worth it?" After all, he was a first ballot lock for the HOF before he started with all this crap.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
if the baseball writers see it the same way; bonds will not be going into the hall anytime soon.
if Bonds doesnt do drugs and steroids he doesnt have 7 MVP's and he most certainly wouldnt have 700 homeruns, and he probably wouldnt be playing today and i'd wager he wouldnt have those MVP's in 2002, 2003, and 2004 without the drugs.
That is true to some extent, but he was a four-time MVP prior to 2002, and would have been a first ballot HOFer anyway, as the only player in MLB history with 500 homers and 500 stolen bases. I'd be totally shocked if Barry is not a first ballot HOFer, and by a comfortable margin at that. For me, that is what makes his legacy so unfortunate, that he felt the need to amplify a guaranteed HOF career by using steroids. His situation is much different, though, than a guy like McGwire's, whose main attribute (hitting home runs) was steroid-aided. Strike those steroid seasons by Mark, and he's little more than Dave Kingman. Not a fair comparison, IMO, to compare Bonds to McGwire, not even close.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>f Bonds doesnt do drugs and steroids he doesnt have 7 MVP's and he most certainly wouldnt have 700 homeruns, and he probably wouldnt be playing today and i'd wager he wouldnt have those MVP's in 2002, 2003, and 2004 without the drugs.
That is true to some extent, but he was a four-time MVP prior to 2002, and would have been a first ballot HOFer anyway, as the only player in MLB history with 500 homers and 500 stolen bases. I'd be totally shocked if Barry is not a first ballot HOFer, and by a comfortable margin at that. For me, that is what makes his legacy so unfortunate, that he felt the need to amplify a guaranteed HOF career by using steroids. His situation is much different, though, than a guy like McGwire's, whose main attribute (hitting home runs) was steroid-aided. Strike those steroid seasons by Mark, and he's little more than Dave Kingman. Not a fair comparison, IMO, to compare Bonds to McGwire, not even close. >>
Perfect commentary. Good to see someone who "gets it" - I don't particularly like NY fans but NY fans are definitely knowledgeable, second only to Philly fans.
My point is just that there are athletes that are better than everybody else in every sport. Just because the guy is an a-hole doesn't take away his accomplishments. If they prove Barry knowingly used steriods for a period of time, not just an ointment once or twice, then I put him in the same category as Canseco or Palmeiro. I do not think you can prove whether he used steriods or not, he has never tested positive for them.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
What you just said makes my point for me. Arod has been mentioned a few times by people like Canseco. Arod and Lebron came to the professional level at young ages with massive amounts of muscle development. How did Lebron have that much muscle mass at age 18? Why did Arod gain 30 pounds of muscle his rookie season.
AROD has hit 500 homeruns faster that anyone, how is this done without steriods? By your arguments, these types of records can only be achieved with the assistance of steriods. Therefore Arod must have used steriods. But nobody wants to talk about Arod, Lebron or others.
Just saying Bonds is the best player of his era is not good enough for the Bonds haters. What he has achieved does not matter. They would hate him whether he hit the homeruns or not. Using alleged steriod use to attempt to taint his achievementsis a convient way to continue to hate Bonds and bring others down with you. If the media were on Arod and Lebron like they are on Bonds things would be a lot different for those two guys, but Arod plays for the Yankees and Lebron is the savior of basketball. When Arod ends up playing for the Giants next year things will change in a big way for him, no more free ride through the media.
How come nobody is asking why a 44 year old pitcher can come off of retirement, with very little time to train, gets into shape and then makes it back into the MLB and throw 95 mph fastballs?
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>but that wouldn't at all explain why Greg Anderson sits in jail today. >>
That continues to be an excellent point and Bonds apologists refuse to discuss it for obvious reasons.
Rather than Greg coming out saying Bonds did or didn't knowingly take steriods, he sits in jail while life passes him by.
Wonder how much money Bonds is paying him to keep his mouth shut because it's a really simple question.
<< <i>How come nobody is asking why a 44 year old pitcher can come off of retirement, with very little time to train, gets into shape and then makes it back into the MLB and throw 95 mph fastballs? >>
Becuase he plays for the Yankees?
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
I guess we just disagree. I can no longer have a debate when you decide to call me ignorant just becuase I do not agree with your position. It's baseball, Barry Bonds plays a game for a living. What is the big deal.
Have a nice day,
Go Barry!
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
Even if it means increasing your shoe and head size.
To the Bonds apologists and bobos: Lie to yourself, and clap for the "quest" and tell yourself that no matter how he got there, 756 home runs is a whole lot, and that such an accomplishment is worthy of celebration. Lie to yourself and say that even if Bonds cheated, he was hardly the only one, so why should we concentrate mainly on him? Lie to yourself, as if you don't know the obvious answer to that question.
You know the guy who gets hurt the most? It isn't Hank Aaron. It isn't Bud Selig, though the indecisive Commissioner did make a fool of himself equivocating on whether to show up, then finally appearing, and finally acting like he was attending his own root canal when Bonds tied the record. No, it is Bonds himself, though he is too stubborn to even know it. A Hall of Fame talent, who would have gone down as one of the greatest players of all-time anyway, now forever should be linked instead not with guys he should have belonged next to _ Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, his godfather, Wille Mays, Hank Aaron _ but with Peter Edward Rose.
Like Rose, Bonds forever could have been known only for his remarkable poetry on a baseball diamond. First-ballot Hall of Famer. Unanimous Hall-of-Famer. Instead, like Rose, Bonds has found a way to muddy the waters so thoroughly with extra-curricular activity, that there will always be an asterisk by his name.
Hank Aaron is hurt not at all. He remains the greatest home-run hitter of all-time by any meaningful standard, and a man who, to a frighteningly hateful backdrop, earned not only every home run but his lasting place in baseball history. A toast to you, Hammerin' Hank.
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