How can one determine if a flip is PVC or not?

AnkurJ

I bought a pack of flips from a local show, but how can I tell if they are PVC or not? I didnt ask the dealer at the show, but I need to make sure I am not ruining my coins.

AJ

mgoodm3

Crinkly plastic good, soft plastic not so good.

LanLord

Also, give a good strong sniff to them. Do they smell like a brand new shower curtain? If yes, toss them.

I believe there is also a distructive test that uses either a soldering iron or a flame, but I don't recall.

Be careful if you use that second test, smoke from PVC will create clorine gas which turns into hydrochloric acid in your lungs.

Russ

Stiff good, floppy bad.

Russ, NCNE

AnkurJ

I took out a bunch of coins from the stapled flips thinking those were bad, and these were better for storage! What the heck! Have to change everything back now. Thankfully its only been about a month since the coins have been in there.

Ankur

Barndog

if you still can't tell, toss them. Be sure and buy some PVC-free stuff (Brent-Krueger, for example). Much cheaper than allowing PVC to damage your coins.

Scioto

Draw the edge across your wrist.
If you bleed it's good.
Well, not really good,
I mean bleeding is not good.
So if you don't bleed it's good.
But the flip has PVC which is bad.

OK?

AnkurJ

Alrighty then....I would rather try the snif test




<< <i>Draw the edge across your wrist.
If you bleed it's good.
Well, not really good,
I mean bleeding is not good.
So if you don't bleed it's good.
But the flip has PVC which is bad.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>believe there is also a distructive test that uses either a soldering iron or a flame, but I don't recall. >>



Take a small piece of the flip and put it into a loop at the end of a copper wire. Hold the wire in a pair of pliers and put it and the flip sample into a flame from a kitchen stove or propane torch. If you see green in the flame its PVC. This is known as the Beilstein flame test for halogens. Other halogens which also test positive are iodine, fluorine and bromine.

Type2

<< <i>Draw the edge across your wrist.
If you bleed it's good.
Well, not really good,
I mean bleeding is not good.
So if you don't bleed it's good.
But the flip has PVC which is bad.

OK? >>

+1

Coinhog

This is exactly why I liberated my Libertas Americanas restrikes from the soft plastic they were heat wrapped in. That plastic was so soft and full of PVC that it even had a green tint to it!

originalisbest

BAJJERFAN beat me to it - that's how you tell.

TAClough

<< <i>Stiff good, floppy bad.

Russ, NCNE >>





Russ,

The OP was asking about “flips”, not your ex-wife’s opinion of you

wayneherndon

Stiff or hard doesn't necessarily mean they are safe. They may be PVC-free but still have some other problems. Here's some info from the manufacturers of Saflips:


Most of the double pocket coin flips today are made of vinyl, the common name of polyvinyl chloride (PVC). These PVC flips are available in both "soft" and "hard" versions and both types are dangerous for storing coins. The chemicals that can bleed out of the vinyl and the hydrogen chloride gas that the vinyl emits are corrosive to coins, causing sticky green slime, cloudy appearance and microscopic pitting of the coin's surfaces. This is why museums don't use vinyl of any kind, because museums know there is no such thing as safe vinyl.

In 1979 E&T Kointainer Co. began researching an inert, museum quality double pocket coin flip. This research resulted in the development of a pure Mylar holder, the Saflip in 1980. Since then, collectors have had an alternative to the dangerous vinyl holders that ruined so many coins. Since 1980, millions of Saflips have been purchased and used by collectors, dealers and museums to safely store coins. In all those years, not a single coin has been damaged by these archivally safe coin flips.

Saflips are manufactured under rigorous conditions to keep them uncontaminated by oil or machine dirt. Saflips are packaged in inert poly bags -- they are free of paper and cardboard dust that might cause spotting. Acid and sulfur free identification cards are available and can be inserted into one of the pockets.

Saflips have been purchased by Harvard, Princeton, Cornell and James Madison Universities and Michigan University for use in their libraries and museums. Museums and universities use Saflips and you should too.

BAJJERFAN

Saflips can also contain embedded microscopic abrasive particles which can scratch your coin if you slide it into the flip instead of dropping it in. There was smoe research done by PCGS about this.



<< <i>Be careful if you use that second test, smoke from PVC will create clorine gas which turns into hydrochloric acid in your lungs. >>



I believe that burning PVC can create/form phosgene gas which hyrolyzes to hyrochloric acid in moist lung tissue. You will only be burning a very small secant of the PVC so don't worry about it. A burning home with vinyl siding is a different problem for sure.

Barry

The Beilstein test is a simple chemical test which is used to determine whether ~ a plastic contains pvc or polyvinylidene chloride. To carry out the test you will need a small propane torch and a copper wire (a ~ penny could also be used). Copper by itself burns cleanly but produces a green flame (copper chloride) when combined with a compound containing chlorine ( e.g., pvc)
Steps:
Heat the copper wire in the flame of the torch until it burns cleanly. This serves to bum off any unwanted residues that might be on the wire. Make sure that you hold the wire with pliers or an insulator to avoid injury. Touch the hot wire to the holder. Some of the holder will melt and be stuck to the wire. Be sure to hold the holder close to the air intake of the torch in order to draw away the fumes from the burning plastic. Put the wire back into the flame. If the flame bums yellow or clear, no pvc present. If the flame burns bright green, then some pvc is present.

For the stretch test, pull on the plastic and determine how easy it is to stretch it. The tear test is similar. Try to tear the plastic film as you would a piece of paper.

Stretch and Tear
Polyester (MylarTM) hard to stretch hard to initiate a tear; once tear begins material tears easily; tear has a rough edge

Polypropylene easier to stretch than polyester hard to initiate a tear; once tear begins material tears easily; tear has a clean edge similar to cellophane

Polyethylene easier to stretch than polyester hard to tear tends to tear in directions

Polyvinylchloride easier to stretch than polyester moderately easy to initiate a tear ragged tear edge

Polystyrene hard to stretch easy to initiate a tear; clean tear, but not straight

Cellophane hard to stretch easy to tear

Cellulose Triacetate easier to stretch than polyester fairly easy to tear; tear has "smokey" edge

Burn tests: Take a small sample of plastic and place it in a pair of tongs or tweezers. Ignite the sample and observe the resulting odor and rate of burn. Please be sure to carry out these tests in a well ventilated area while burning the plastic film over an ashtray. Avoid inhaling the fumes as they may be toxic.

Polyester (MylarTM) faintly sweet melts, burns slowly, beading back without dripping; leaves an ash residue.

Polypropylene burns slowly, beading back without dripping.

Polyethylene + odor like burning candle wax fairly rapid; melts and drips like wax

Polystyrene odor like marigolds melts into a clear liquid

Polyvinlidene Chloride pungent extinguishes itself when removed from the flame

Cellophane burned newspaper does not melt, drip or form beads; burns the same as paper; continues to burn when removed from flame

Cellulose Acetate mixture of burning paper and acetic acid burns slowly when removed from flame.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i> a plastic contains pvc or polyvinylidene chloride >>



polyvinylidene chloride is NOT the same as PVC, polyvinylidene chloride contains two chlorine atoms per molecule of ethylene whereas yer typical PVC contains only one. an easy way to see what a positive test looks like is to dip the clean copper wire in salt water and heat that in the flame.

FLBuffaloHunter

Here is some info from the Coin Preservation handbook:

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>Stiff good, floppy bad.

Russ, NCNE >>



This problem exists in many marriages, too.
That's why there's Home Depot™
Send the wife out for some Acetone ! That will take care of the problems a floppy will cause.

BAJJERFAN

In organic chemical nomenclature vinylidene signifies that two substituents are present on one ethylene/vinyl molecule and it further denotes that both are attached to the same carbon atom. Vinyl denotes that only a single substituent is present in the molecule and that it can be on either of the 2 carbon atoms.

TwoSides2aCoin

For a more technical description see Bajj's post ... mine was tongue in cheek.

Well, not really tongue in cheek but maybe a little risque for this crowd.
Sorry mom !
Hugs Carol

richbeat

I will NEVER understand why they continue to make flips out of PVC.

ALHENDER22

WOW this is a lot of posts over some plastic and which should be used as TEMP holder anyway. Folks if you have a nice coin, spend a few bucks, get it graded and encased in a hard plastic holder. Of course holders have failed, but with holders we dont have to conduct elaborate tests nor chance lung damage from fumes as a result of homemade tests. One last advantage to the hard plastic holder is if you accidently drop you coin,
the chances of damage are much less in a holder that in a FLIP.

Al

Type2

Is ther going to be a test after this post. I think I got it hard good, soft not good, tear good rip not good.

Boom

Buy stiff, crinkly, Museum Quality "SAFLIPS" - the kind that we submit coins to be graded in = GOOD.

The soft rubbery ones that smell like the shower curtain and have the Atoms from Hell - Chunk in the Trash IMMEDIATELY!

You can keep coins safely stored for a long, long time in SAFLIPS. SAFLIPS, Ha ... Say Flips.... Safe Lips

Here is something to help you remember by association. Picture THIS ..... Safe Lips!

Connecticoin

<< <i>

I took out a bunch of coins from the stapled flips thinking those were bad, and these were better for storage! What the heck! Have to change everything back now. Thankfully its only been about a month since the coins have been in there.

Ankur >>



Any coins you had in PVC flips (even just for a month) should be soaked in acetone to make sure no PVC residue may haze or damage the coins later on.