Black Day for Numismatics: Import Restrictions on Cypriot Coins

AlaBill

Did anyone read this article on David Welsh's blog?

David Welsh Blog

What effect will it have on collecting ancient coins?

[edited to fix link]

Writersblock

Considering that several other countries have made similar requests, this may be the opening of "Pandora Box" that will result in the granting of the other requests as well. And some of the other requests are considerably worse than the Cyprus one. Some of them ask for restrictions not just on that countries coins, but on any coins that may have been used in the country before the cut off date. Since in pre "modern" times coins were often used fore widespread trade and were good anywhere at their weight value they are often found all over the world. As an example, Roman coins are found all over Europe and part of Asia. If any of those countries gets such a restriction passed it could spell the end of all roman coin collecting.

Some of the countries have cut off dates that are very recent. When China made their request they wanted to ban the import of anything before 1911! And when a similar request was made a few years back for Iraq, it would have banned anything before 1990.

Another thing is that most archaeologists do not know coins and require the COLLECTORS to identify and explain what the coins found on sites are. And normally coins recovered from digs are seldom fully cataloged or studied. Just recovered and stored away again. It is the collector/numismatist who studies the coin learns their context. But the archaeologists want to take that away.

Finally think about the non-archaeologist who tend to find these coins. Under these new restrictions if they tell anyone about their finds the government or the archaeologists will just take them away from them. So there is no incentive to tell the archaeologists about new sites. If they can't sell some of the coins into the collectors market they have not benefit there either. There is only one way a commoner can have any benefit from his discovery. Don't tell anyone and melt the coins down for their metal content. That really helps archaeology doesn't it.

CaptainCal

How is there a way to tell when it was imported? They don't stamp coins (as far as I know) like they do guns that are imported, so unless they have some sort of inventory of EVERY coin that was brought into the US can they really enforce this?

AlaBill

I don't see this getting a lot of press, nor much concern among the ancient coin collectors. I happen to believe it potentially can be devastating to this part of the coin collecting hobby.

Is there anything we can do to help this situation?

What about the ANA, what are they doing to help?

SYRACUSIAN

There is only one way a commoner can have any benefit from his discovery. Don't tell anyone and melt the coins down for their metal content. That really helps archaeology doesn't it.




Noone is that stupid. The average commoner to which you refer, was basically looting his own country, selling to circuits abroad whatever artifacts he could get his hands on. The circuits will not disappear, but there are better chances now for the usually stolen artifacts , to remain in their country of origin, with richer local collectors filling the gap. I'm not saying that the policy is faultless, but sometimes drastic measures are needed to stop something bad, and in my opinion, it will barely affect the average collector if at all. The supply of ancient coins exceeds demand so far, as proven by the low prices, so there's really no need for more exports.

That's as far as most countries with such treasures are concerned. Cyprus is an even more complicated case. Newsman very cleverly explained why here.

Hussulo

I beg to differ with newsmans statement of "because to the Turkish occupiers if it isn't Turkish it's loot, not history".
Having lived in North Cyprus from not long after being born to the age of 12 I can tell you that there is a lot of history there and it hasn't been looted. There are wonderful statues amphitheaters to see at sites like Salamis as well as plenty off castles museums etc.

I must point out that I am not biased. My grandmother was Greek and my grandfather (whom fought with the British in World War II) was Turkish Cypriot (pretty much unheard of I know), my mother is English and I was born in Scotland.

I won't get in to the politics of the war; needless to say terrible acts of inhumanity were carried out by both sides. However my grandmother settled in the north after the war, were even though she was Greek she was accepted. She followed the Greek Orthodox religion and even thought I do not follow any specific religion myself, I have fond memories of going into a church in Kyrenia were she was the guardian/caretaker. She would light candles and say prayers. This church contains many ancient icons, carvings etc and it was never looted. Neither were many others which still stand today. Now don't get me wrong I am not saying that there aren't any cases of farmers digging up coins and treasure and selling it on to feed his kids etc., but this also happens in plenty of other countries.

I would also like to point out that there are museums, curators and archeologists in the north (Turkish half) whom do a great job. If you ever visit Kyrenia be sure to visit the castle were the one of the world's oldest shipwrecks is being preserved and displayed. It was found in the 1960s and is 2300 years old.

I am pleased that recently the UN line has been opened up and, Turks, Greeks and tourists can travel from north to south relatively easily.
A couple of years ago I flew to Paphos (lovely town with wonderful mosaics). Traveled around the south spent 4 days in the north visiting relatives and about 8 days in the south before flying back to Scotland.
I hope that all Cypriots can live in peace.
I also agree that it is a good idea to look into ways to protect the Cypriot antiquities and coins. It is a relatively small island but with a huge history.
I hope that both sides can live in peace.

P.S. I have also visited the Parthenon. Superb attraction and it is a crying shame it was blown up, but just to reiterate the Turks did not willingly blow up the Parthenon. You could argue that they did indirectly blow it up by storing amunition in it (as well using it as a shelter for women and children). The Venetians were the ones that "pulled the trigger".
"On 25th September a Turkish deserter told Morosini that most of the Turks’ ammunition was stored in the Parthenon, and that the most important of the women and children of the Turkish community were also taking shelter there, thinking that the Venetians would not bombard the priceless edifice. Without any hesitation, Morosini ordered the artillery to direct their fire towards the Parthenon. On the evening of the next day, an artillery lieutenant from Luneburg scored a direct hit. There followed an explosion that shook the entire town as the munitions exploded. The Parthenon was blown apart and about three hundred people, including the garrison commander, were killed. Even the besiegers on the Museion Çill were showered with fragments of marble. "
Taken from
http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?pageID=217&la=eng

SYRACUSIAN

That's a very nice story Hussulo. Your grandmother sounds very courageous and completely out of the norm. She put in practice an almost ideal scenario of coexistence that we would all like to see one day. Thanks for sharing this.

Hussulo

Thanks Dimitri,
"Your grandmother sounds very courageous and completely out of the norm" she was in her own way.
It’s good to finally see some friendship and peace in Cyprus on both sides. I know there are people who still don't like the "other side" and that can't be unexpected. After all the war was not that long ago and there is bound to be some bad feelings and memories. I was not alive during the war but took some hope in my last visit to Cyprus. I was staying in the north and visiting my aunty and uncle, when I was introduced to their "old friends" who were visiting and having lunch. The “old friends” were their Greek neighbors pre-war who after the opening of the United Nations line came to Kyrenia to look them up. Both my aunty, uncle, and their friends now often travel over the border to meet up.

cacheman

"I beg to differ with newsmans statement of "because to the Turkish occupiers if it isn't Turkish it's loot, not history"."

As do many of us, knowing the practice of historical negationism is his forte.


Writersblock, your statements imply you are far more interested in the intrinsic value of the coin than their history and your weak assumption that collectors know more than the archaeologists is flawed. The coin, without the history, is a metal disk with a picture on it and worth only melt value. Can I assume that your fear also runs into the U.S. laws established to protect indian artifacts from being taken from where they are found?

crito

Coins are impervious to revisionist historians. It's hard to rewrite history when people collect annoying little "metal disks" that disprove all the lies. The recent falsification of Macedonian history is an excellent example.