Options
How and why I sold my finest-known 1894-S dime for $1.85 million
Justhavingfun
Posts: 835 ✭
Thanks for your well wishes. And don't worry, good health permitting, I'm not going away.
I am however, getting on in years and although in robust health for my age, I've been seeing my friends and relatives drop away, some of them 10 or even 20 years young than me. I feel the walls closing in on me; and know my time can't be that far off. So what is my wife going to do with my 1894-S dime, when she barely knows what a share of stock is? Jeepers, she wouldn't recognize the 1894-S if Lady Liberty bit her on the nose.
My children also have little or no interest in rare coins and it would be unfair to the family to leave them with an estate long in coins and short in cash. So, I've begun selling my collection off, beginning with my childhood fantasy coin -- the 1894-S dime.
The sale itself was simple: John Feigenbaum contacted me saying he had a wanna be buyer for the dime and inquiring if I might be interested in selling it. John had acted like a gentleman while selling me the 1894-S, and I told him the truth -- that I was on-and-off-again about the sale, but that he had caught me on an "on" day. And since he had been so helpful when I was buying the coin, I'd be happy to return the favor.
I said that I had a $100,000 range for the dime that would make me comfortable. That is to say a max and min ask price.
If his client bid below my min ask price, bye bye, I wasn't going to dicker. If he bid within the range, he got it at his bid. If he bid over my max ask, he got it at my max ask price. Even if he bid a $150K over my max ask, my max ask would be the purchase price.
To make a long-story short; he came in with a bid below my min ask. I said bye-bye and prepared to salt the coin away for another 5 to 10 years. Heck, is there any surer way to make big money in rare coins than to buy the super-rarities and hold 'em?
Anyway, John and Mitch (my agent who did a great job for me both on the purchase and sale of the 1894-S) dime got to talking. I'm still a businessman and didn't want to waste my time and psychic energy with negotiations so I gave Mitch authorization to deal on my behalf.
John came back with a second bid dead in the exact middle of my min/max range, and the deal was done.
John's client got a great coin. There's no doubt in my mind that within 10 years the coin will be worth $2.5 to $3 million, and that makes me happy because I want the coin to be a win for the buyer, as it was for me.
Warm regards from Manila, where I'm still ...
Just Having Fun
I am however, getting on in years and although in robust health for my age, I've been seeing my friends and relatives drop away, some of them 10 or even 20 years young than me. I feel the walls closing in on me; and know my time can't be that far off. So what is my wife going to do with my 1894-S dime, when she barely knows what a share of stock is? Jeepers, she wouldn't recognize the 1894-S if Lady Liberty bit her on the nose.
My children also have little or no interest in rare coins and it would be unfair to the family to leave them with an estate long in coins and short in cash. So, I've begun selling my collection off, beginning with my childhood fantasy coin -- the 1894-S dime.
The sale itself was simple: John Feigenbaum contacted me saying he had a wanna be buyer for the dime and inquiring if I might be interested in selling it. John had acted like a gentleman while selling me the 1894-S, and I told him the truth -- that I was on-and-off-again about the sale, but that he had caught me on an "on" day. And since he had been so helpful when I was buying the coin, I'd be happy to return the favor.
I said that I had a $100,000 range for the dime that would make me comfortable. That is to say a max and min ask price.
If his client bid below my min ask price, bye bye, I wasn't going to dicker. If he bid within the range, he got it at his bid. If he bid over my max ask, he got it at my max ask price. Even if he bid a $150K over my max ask, my max ask would be the purchase price.
To make a long-story short; he came in with a bid below my min ask. I said bye-bye and prepared to salt the coin away for another 5 to 10 years. Heck, is there any surer way to make big money in rare coins than to buy the super-rarities and hold 'em?
Anyway, John and Mitch (my agent who did a great job for me both on the purchase and sale of the 1894-S) dime got to talking. I'm still a businessman and didn't want to waste my time and psychic energy with negotiations so I gave Mitch authorization to deal on my behalf.
John came back with a second bid dead in the exact middle of my min/max range, and the deal was done.
John's client got a great coin. There's no doubt in my mind that within 10 years the coin will be worth $2.5 to $3 million, and that makes me happy because I want the coin to be a win for the buyer, as it was for me.
Warm regards from Manila, where I'm still ...
Just Having Fun
Jefferson nickels, Standing Libs, and US-Philippines rock
0
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now that the 94(s) dime is sold, I plan to get back to assembling JHF's #1 PCGS Silver/clad Roosevelt Dime sets so that the set(s) are ready to auction off later this year. The auction of these Roosevelts should be the opportunity of a lifetime for dedicated Roosie collectors to acquire some of the most spectacular MS Roosevelts out there. JHF's collection is a combination of my entire original registry set, the Heller (Registrycoin) entire original monster Registry set (which incorporated my set), the OnlyRoosies entire original monster Registry set and a host of other spectacular Roosies purchased over the past 4-5 years all rolled into one collection. Anyone interested in one of the most amazing collections of Roosevelt Dimes you may ever encounter should keep an eye out for the annoucement of when and where JHF's Roosie collection will be auctioned off.
Wondercoin
I, too, felt the need to congratulate you on your sale. I wish you many more years of good health. I
always enjoy your threads and I've even immitated you regarding my Lincoln set: and that would be
by just having fun.
Warm Regards,
RegistryNut
Just kidding, congrats on the sale and enjoy the money you get from it. Best regards
Thank you, too, TomB: Good health I have right now, but one thing business has taught me: "Don't get overconfident." As soon as I start thinking all's peachy keen, something not quite so peachy or keen happens.
Mr. Wondercoin: You were great during the sale. When I went bye-bye and walked away, you picked up the ball and made the sale, just where I would have wanted, right smack dab in the middle of my range.
And regarding the Roosies, which I believe are the "best ever" collection of Roosies, yes, this should be a fascinating sale. Roosie lovers paradise. My own collection combined with 3 better collections. The silver Roosies will be particularly exciting ... I think I have some of the most beautiful (and valuable) Roosies ever found.
I hate to part with them, but it will be a sweet fare-thee-well, and hopefully the catalog will be a pleasant reminder for my family and a valuable tool for Roosie collectors for years to come.
From Manila where I'm ...
Just Having Fun, and tons of it
Warm regards
Just Having Fun
Other series that will be maximally hard to part with -- if I part with them -- will be the Shield Nickels, which if you'll look, you'll see are perfecto -- top business strike in each and every slot. And the proofs are almost as good. Plus I have some of the most interesting varieties imaginable. The series is filled with interesting double dies and other fascinating mint errors
The Standing Liberty Quarters is another series that would tear at my heart strings to part with. I love the way those coins look. And I not only have a near perfect set, but I also have one of the only two pattern SLQ's in private hands, plus a unique collection of SLQ error coins which, as you know are very scarce in and of themselves.
I do love those error coins and my Jefferson Nickel collection is filled with them. I'm sure I've mentioned that I'm collecting a date set of Jeffersons in major errors -- A 1950D nickel in MS63 RED(!) ... double denomination nickels ... nickels on dime planchets ... double and triple struck Jeffs, and so forth. If I ever sell my main collection, I think I'll keep these to give me something to work on.
Fond regards to you, as one of the guyz who inspired me to reach for greater heights numismatically.
Just Having Fun
I agree with you. What a shame more people don't discuss the where's, why's, and how's of other big sales. We can all learn from that. My method of selling was quite different from the normal method of sale.
I've now bought and sold 4 times using this method (twice a buyer and twice a seller). And it works. If forces you (when you're selling) to come to terms with yourself, on what would really make you happy. And then when you have that, it forces you to realize that being piggish about the coin is self-defeating.
And on the other hand, when I'm buying on a deal like that, it forces me to think ... Oh gosh, won't I feel like sh_t if this coin gets away from me. So again, I have to come to terms with myself and think what's the maximum I'm really, really -- in my heart of hearts -- comfie with paying.
It IS an interesting way to buy and sell. And it worked nicely this time, too.
And Stone: Thanks for your well wishes, and your comment about the give-away echoes the sentiments of a dear friend of mine who saw an article about the sale in a Bay Area newspaper and wrote to me: "Buddy, have a dime to spare?" lol.
Best wishes to both of you ...
Just Having Fun
Although, it is a coin that I would never in my wildest dream be able to own, I will continue to follow the stories.
I shared your story with my wife and showed her the auction catalog. Your coin was awesome! I think it would be an honor to own even the circulated one, and you had the best. Congratulations on your sale.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
JHF, your tale showed that perfectly.
If you were to sell, the price (range) was set. Meet it or good-bye.
Congrats on being the guardian of that great dime, & fulfilling a dream.
And although we'll all miss your escapades (after the stories of the sales), we'll still be able to marvel at your All-Time best sets, and maybe a few collectors will strive to surpass you.
What are your plans after coins?
i'll look forward to the disposition of your fs jeff 5c set. hopefully, the fs designation is true for the majority of your coins. a recent high ranking registry set sold at heritage and e-bay was so full of crap with nicks and bridges in the steps that i vowed to never bid at auction on a fs jeff. if no return privelige, no bids from me.
<< <i>i find it very amusing that roosevelt dimes and fs jeff's are seriously discussed on the same thread. >>
It's very cool that the Roosies and Jeffs can also ride in the front of the bus.
Congrats on your sale. I hope you Rosey sale goes well also.
Ray Overby
RayOverby
It seems to me that Wondercoin and DLRC ended up meeting your goal and taking 6% in the process, much like a realtor. A realtor's real value is determining what something is worth and convincing a buyer of that. It's quite apparent you knew the current value of the 94-s dime as well as anyone and had a ready buyer angling for it.
DLRC would have certainly tried to convince their buyer that the coin was worth what you wanted.
It seems to me that the middlemen could have been removed from the equation (or at least had DLRC take his 3% commission from the new buyer). Had you told DLRC what you wanted for the coin (say the top of your range), I think the buyer would have ponied up.
FYI, I would have been happy to be a negotiator on this transaction
for $5000 or less (Brinks included). Had the coin been lost I wonder if the insurance would have agreed that $1.9 MILL was current value.
roadrunner
1894-S dimes in general have always been one of my favorites. I'm still kicking myself for passing on the PCGS PR64 [Now NGC66 and the nicest of the bunch IMO] in favor of waiting for this particular coin to come to auction.
Wondercoin
"To make a long-story short" - my commission arrangements with JHF (and everyone else on other deals) are personal of course, but, these (6) words of JHF speak volumes.
<< <i>JHF, thanks for sharing the story; it's not often that you get a first person description of a deal of this magnitude. >>
I agree and that just adds to it and makes it real for all of us collectors here on the forums.
That was a great post and read.
Thank you for the inside story.
-------------
etexmike
roadrunner
Your contribution to the forums and coin collecting in general is always a breath of fresh air. You are a class act old boy!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
I have collections that took me a decade to build (like my Standing Liberty Quarters) and which combined is worth more than the dime. But it's not the same.
Hi Ajia: "Make a plan and stick to it." You got it.
Making a plan that you're comfortable with and believe in is half the problem. The sticking to it is the other half.
Sorry guys, I do want to answer the rest of you, but I'm at my son's office here in Manila and he wants to go for din-din, so I'm out of here.
Warm regards,
Dan
I read about your sale on the DLRC home page and just discovered this thread...very interesting stories and comments. I'm sure you have many more...ever thought of publishing your stories or writing a book? As a relatively new collector, I'm awed by your achievements and numismatic stature. Good luck to you and may you have fair winds and following seas.
Hmm, you can celebrate with some extra shrimp coc*tail and extra champagne with your family!
Hmmmmmm, but on the other hand, you astutely point out that your friends are dropping off/out on you!!
Scratch that extra shrimp coc*tail and champagne.
Eat that apple and a warm cup of milk before bedtime!
Seriously, congratulations on having had the opportunity to enjoy that 1894-S dime!!
Someday, I may own one of them but will be content to enjoy looking and enjoy watching others such as yourself enjoying them!
Eugene
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
Wondercoin
I finally figured out my CU password so I can post again.
So, now I can officially thank JHF and Wondercoin personally for their parts in the transaction that took place. Class acts all the way around!
I've had one of the most interesting months of my life thanks to this particular deal, and the now-historic flight was merely the tip of the iceberg. Probably the least interesting aspect of the deal, but the reporter from the SF Chronicle seized on the trip and would not let it go. Frankly, I dodged 99% of his questions but he was determined to make up facts where I refused to supply them (i.e. Wondercoin's commission; my "nervousness", etc, etc, etc). (Refer back to line 1 of this post)
It was truly a monumental experience, and probably the most enjoyable of the three times that I have handled this coin. When we sold it as part of the Richmond Collection in 2005, I was far too distracted with the rest of the auction events to "enjoy" the sale.
Thanks again to all of you who have been supportive on the boards here.
-John
p.s. if you think our fee was too high then you haven't sold a house lately. How many real estate agents do you know who will fly coast-to-coast to deliver the keys!
BTW, I wish that Mark Goodman could have imaged this National Treasure, but maybe the new owner can make arrangements for a super macro shot of the coin showing all facets of the mirrors down to the colors.
Oh yeah, since oreville & co. seem to have keyboard problems, I hear they serve really big shrimp cocktail in Thailand, Mr. Fun. Is this true?
Cheers.
If you're having a giveaway for your Jefferson Nickels... I'm in!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
My friend from Taiwan was just here for a week of work. She (not a coin collector) knows I collect coins and asked if I had heard of a dime that just sold for $1.9 million dollars....I didn't say anything, just opened a browser and navigated here and showed her the thread
Thanks, JHF, for posting this thread.....it was cool to have a non-collector, from Taiwan even, mention they had heard about this
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
jump on a jitney and meet me up at camp john hay up in bagio saturday for a 9:00 am tee time
we will chat about the dime
congats
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
And thank you, too, f cloud. My own wife cooed with delight when I told her about the coin ... and then was surprised when she read about her hubby
Hello Ajia, and nice to meet you.
You write ... "most successful people make a plan & stick to it." Well I can't speak for most people, but speaking for myself, I love those plans. I even have a simple day play, every day and while I never accomplish as much as I'd like, it gives me a daily goal. And then I have weekly and monthly goals as well as long-term goals. And when I have those goals, that forces me to think: "How the heck am I ever going to get there?" So I have to think of weekly and monthly plans, too.
I'm not leaving coins. I'm just collecting something different. I really zonk on the Shield and the Liberty Head Nickels and will continuing to collect them. I'm continuing to build a collection in the US Philippines. I have some nice commemorative sets in the Oregon's, Texas, Booker T, and Carver Commems. And I do like the silver three centers, and will keep plugging away at them.
Now one quick question for you? Your logo coin? Is that a real coin? It's spectacular. What is it?
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
In the fullness of time, my Jefferson Full Steppers will likely be sold at a Heritage auction. At least that's what Mr. Wondercoin, who will be handling the sale for me, tells me.
So, I'm sorry we'll be missing your bid. And I'm sure you'll be missing out, too: As great as your own full-steppers are, I'm confident that I have one or two that would upgrade your collection.
Dear Mr. Registry Coin: You put it so aptly "It's very cool that the Roosies and Jeffs can also ride in the front of the bus."
Yes, indeed, and while the 1894-S out shines my entire Jefferson collection, if the truth be known, I had a hundred times more work -- and fun -- building the Jeff collection than owning the dime.
Dear Ray Overby:
Thank you too, and also for your nice post on the other thread. I'm pretty relaxed about the Roosies. It has many almost impossible-to-get coins in super-duper condition and many of them are beautifully toned.
Speaking from memory (because the dimes are in the states and I'm in Thailand), the full bands are almost all real full-bands, and actually, I have more than one MS68 that's a true full-bander but I can't get PCGS to attribute it properly. I think they're thinking of the the 1960-D and are gun shy.
In any case, I'm sure you'll be a lot more interested when my Jefferson collection goes on the block.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
You say that I could have eliminated the middle-man from the equation, and indeed I could have. But that would have breached the promise I'd made to Mr. Wondercoin, which in turn would have ruined my peace of mind. Being able to sleep at night is a form of profit -- and one which the Feds can't tax.
Indeed, when the sale was completed, I not only had a check for his fee (which, by the way, wasn't 6%), but I was so happy with his conduct of the sale, I added in a major league bonus, many times more than the entire fee you were talking about.
One last point: transportation was never an issue in the sale. When the money was wired into my account, John Feigenbaum (representing the buyer) and Mr. Wondercoin (representing me) went to my bank in Oakland, and got the dime out of the joint safety deposit box Mr. Wondercoin and I maintain. So the dime transfered inside the bank.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Thanks for your congrats and thank you too for your successful sale of the 1913 Liberty Head. That sale made my sale easy.
Regarding the two dimes, I've never seen the NGC 66 dime, but I can tell you this one was a beaut and full of interesting detail, not all of which was meant to be there. Has anybody ever studied all 6 dimes for varieties?
Best wishes,
Just Having Fun
I was wondering where all the nickel errors went.
Maybe you can use a fraction of that $1.85 million to add my collection to yours.
San Diego, CA
Can't wait to see the catalogue!!!!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
And thank you, too, Bushmaster8. I was just having fun and figured the sale was done a tad unusually. I know when this method of sale was first presented to me (I was the buyer), I found it interesting and illuminating, and thought others, like you might find it likewise.
You're welcome Coho corp!
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun, and lots of it ...
Thank you, Mr. New Barber Guy. And no, until you mentioned it, the thought of writing a book my experiences in numismatics never entered my mind. When I mulled it over, I think the most interesting thing I would have to say would be my explanation of all the different ways dealers screw their customers.
Gosh, when I think back over my learning curve in numismatics, oh yeah, many dealers treated me fair and square. The large majority of them, even, were honorable.
But the minority -- the less than squeaky clean -- the dealers who wear the face of honesty and square dealing but have larceny in their hearts -- those are the ones to whom I owe a real debt of gratitude. Because when they ripped me off on a $1,400 coin worth $200 -- they taught me a lesson that saved me from getting ripped on a $140,000 worth $20,000. The lessons they taught me really, really helped me build a top-notch collection with about 26 "best ever" Registry Sets
And the less-than-squeaky-clean dealers include some of the biggest names in the industry.
Putting those experiences down in black and white might be fun, which, after all, is what numismatics is all about.
And no, I wouldn't worry too much about libel suits. As I learned while writing the Silver & Gold Report for a decade in the 1980s, and exposing the scum-bag dealers back then ... truth is a 100% defense. Their lawyers would phone me with threats, and I'd beg 'em to sue. "Please, please do: I'd love to open up your client like a can of sardines." They backed off.
When I filed an application for a libel insurance policy, one of the questions was something like: "Have you ever been threatened with a suit for libel and if so when?"
My answer was: "I've been threatened so many times, I've lost count. But for all the times I was threatened, when the lawyers spoke with me and saw I could prove what I had written, they backed off." I figured I could kiss that insurance policy goodbye, but to my amazement, I got it.
Thanks again for your provocative question.
Just Having Fun!
justhavingfun
still continuing to build a collection of US Philippine coins? I saw your PCGS Set Registry of US philippine coins, yours is already #1, what are you still looking for
jepoy
<< <i>In the fullness of time, my Jefferson Full Steppers will likely be sold at a Heritage auction. At least that's what Mr. Wondercoin, who will be handling the sale for me, tells me. >>
JHF,
Could you please wait until I win the lottery before you sell them?
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
And thank you, too, r bin tex!
Hi there, 1907 Quarter:
The US Philippines are still a very active collection for me. I'm actively pursuing upgrades, and there are still plenty of them around to chase after, so I'm still having lots of fun with them.
Mr. 2 sides 2 a coin : I love fun words games like your Roosie pun. Thank you! And yes, I did do well with the coin, but why is that surprising? Over the years, the best, safest, surest way to make good money as a collector has been to buy the super rarities and hold on to 'em. It's hard to think of an example where someone lost money, even taking inflation into account.
And once more Mr. Wondercoin: Thanks for the party, and I'll see you soon for a celebratory dinner at Morton's. It usually takes a month or so for Coin World to make it out to Bangkok, so if you'd make a copy of the article for me and bring it along, I'd be appreciative.
Warm regards from Bangkok,
Just Having Fun
Wondercoin.