Possible '54 Bowman find in high grade, complete set.......YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THE LATEST!

RonBurgundy · July 22, 2007 8:41AM

I've run across a guy who has, among other things, a complete '54 Bowman set. I just got back from looking through the set; while he describes it as NM, it's a little more complicated than that. About 100 of the 220 cards are NM or better, including the Mantle (NM to NM+), Mays (NM-MT, awesome card), Campy (NM-MT +), etc. The rest of the set is basically EX-MT.....probably 90 of the 120 remaining cards are EX-MT, with the rest EX. Very clean set. No Williams.

The guy knows what he has, and wants $3500 for the set. Probably not a lot of room to negotiate.......maybe can get it for $3000.

I'm looking for guidance........would $3K be overpaying? It seems like this is one of the less popular Bowman sets.....is that the case? Does it have decent breakup potential? What is the common market? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron

handyman · July 22, 2007 8:53AM

I would pay 3000.00 or even 3500 for it.
The mays in and 8 sells for 1000 and the mantle in a 7 will sell for 1000. A few more 8s of Hofers and you have another 1000 with a couple hundred cards left over. I bet you can get 5000 + for that kind of set.
Its worth it. Jump on it today

handyman · July 22, 2007 8:54AM

But if the mays and mantle dont grade as stated then you may loos 500-1000

stown · July 22, 2007 9:01AM

As a set owner (

), I never understood why it's so unappreciated.

$3K sounds a tad high but if the key cards come back 7+, you will do just fine.

Edited to say the more I think about it, $3K sounds reasonable..

nam812 · July 22, 2007 9:03AM

Who does he have for card 66? Ted Williams or Jimmy Piersall?

stown · July 22, 2007 9:06AM

<< Who does he have for card 66? Ted Williams or Jimmy Piersall? >>

He said no Williams. If a Ted was in there, regardless of condition, $3,500 would be a no brainer.

nam812 · July 22, 2007 9:09AM

Everything I say is meant for the set as raw. If you grade anything that alters everything I will say after this.

I dont have the breakup on that set, but it wouldnt take long to figure it out if you have the big book. At $3,500 you're paying about 88% of the set price which is $4,000. Even if the set breaks out to $6,000, you're still paying over half of the high book for cards you will never even get back 40% for raw on eBay. High PSA grades (if you go that route) would be the determining factor.

Bosox1976 · July 22, 2007 9:28AM

Ron - I'd pull the trigger @ 3k. @3500 I'd want some guarantee of unaltered on the key cards though.

lostdart58 · July 22, 2007 9:29AM

I think $3000 isn't cheap but it is doable..........I wouldn't go higher then that......Check those HOFer cards carefully!!

MorrellMan · July 22, 2007 9:34AM

You've seen the cards; I assume you scrutinized the keys - certainly sounds like you did. I don't hear you questioning the validity of the set; I hear you asking if the price is right.

My opinion - I hope you haven't waited too long already!!! Go get it!!

originalisbest · July 22, 2007 9:40AM

Smart advice from morrellman - I hope you're able to get the set and that it works out to be a winner deal for you.

yankeeno7 · July 22, 2007 9:46AM

Gosh, a mid 50's set for 3K. When you really think about it, compared to what some of this new stuff sells for, its a bargain!

RonBurgundy · July 22, 2007 10:07AM

It seems like, to make money on the set, that the Mantle would need to be a 7 and the Mays an 8 for this to really work. If those cards hit those grades, as Handyman said then I've recovered $2K with the rest of the set left to sell. I looked at both for quite a while and am reasonably confident in the grades. I don't think they have been altered, but one can never tell for sure.

I would conservatively estimate the remaining HOF'ers and the other cards listed in the SMR to be 55% EM and 45% NM or better.

Ron

nam812 · July 22, 2007 10:31AM

It only books at $4,000 for a reason. If you can't get him down from $3,500 then i'd walk away, or else after grading fees and shipping to and from PSA, you will be even or a little ahead, and all you will have done is sold it for the original owner.

lickablebean · July 22, 2007 10:43AM

Good Buy at 3500 but a better buy at 3000 - Money maker either way. I would check the pop report and see how many low pop 8s you might be able to get. The variation cards are also good sellers in 8s. Good Luck!

cwazzy · July 22, 2007 11:23AM

I would be interested in some of the cards if you buy it.

Chris

RonBurgundy · July 22, 2007 11:34AM

Total set break value per Beckett, rough estimate: $6880. A combined estimate using Beckett for commons and SMR for bigger stars is $6450. Again, a rough estimate.

Shall I pull the trigger?

Ron

yankeeno7 · July 22, 2007 11:35AM

It's nice mid 50s....YES!!! Without a doubt!!!

RonBurgundy · July 23, 2007 12:57AM

Well, I offered him $3K with the thought that we'd wind up somewhere in the middle, and now he's trying to tie the purchase of this set to a EX 1959 Topps set that he wants too much for. He claims someone made him an offer for both sets, and it's better for him to sell them both if he can. The guy is a realtor, and he's treating this as if people are bidding on a house. I'm pretty annoyed by it..........I think if I'd offered him $3500, he still would not have accepted it because he's treating it as a moving target. Any suggestions?

Ron

stown · July 23, 2007 1:03AM

Play his game: Tell him your best and final offer is $3,250 ALL CASH, which will be good until 5:00 PM today.

If he tries to continue the negotiations, tell him you are done with it and have no regrets. At that price, it's not worth fretting over.

Good luck

originalisbest · July 23, 2007 1:04AM

He keeps dicking around too much, I'd walk away from the deal. Don't get tied into something you didn't originally want at a price that's too high.

yankeeno7 · July 23, 2007 2:34AM

Playing that game, I wouldnt make any better offer than the 3000. If he wants to let you walk away then so be it. You still have your 3000 in your pocket.

1980scollector · July 23, 2007 5:24AM

Ron- I am a realtor and he is trying to push you to the limit-

He is claiming he has other offers(which in real estate is called multiple offers and must be disclaimed and signed off on by all bidders on a property).

I believe from what I have read he wants you to buy the 59 set as well and knows it is overpriced and is trying to get you to buy it too.

Come back with this I appreciate it but I have to pass!

Don't say a thing-

he will do two things

1) ask why and try to work a deal out
2) say nothing act cool and say no problem and within 48 hours you will get a call back trying to do #1 and then you are in the driver seat

I say fire back and say even (since he countered your offer of 3K) and explain I had a buyer for it at 3300.00 and know they have moved on so I am not even sure I can give the 3000K now!

I hope this helps and he is trying to create urgency and it may be there but I have a feeling he is stroking you!

Try to let him you have to move on to the next deal!

RonBurgundy · July 23, 2007 5:36AM

That's good advice, and I really appreciate it. I will make good use of it.

On a slightly related note, what would be an acceptable price for the '59 set? It's Ex to Ex-Mt. Would $2500 be too much?

Ron

nam812 · July 23, 2007 5:47AM

The 1959 Topps baseball set has a card by card break up value of $9,276.00 if that helps any.

stown · July 23, 2007 6:02AM

<< On a slightly related note, what would be an acceptable price for the '59 set? It's Ex to Ex-Mt. Would $2500 be too much? >>

In my humble unedumacted opinion, $2,500 would be high for EX to EX-MT.

Give him a dose of his own medication.

Offer $4K for the entire lot and must be accepted by 4:00 today or else NO DEAL!

lostdart58 · July 23, 2007 6:09AM

<< That's good advice, and I really appreciate it. I will make good use of it.

On a slightly related note, what would be an acceptable price for the '59 set? It's Ex to Ex-Mt. Would $2500 be too much?

Ron >>

I would say $2500 is a LITTLE HIGH. I put together a '59 set one card at a time ( including all variations) off ebay which grades EX-MT+ which cost me roughly $3800 ( including almost $1000 in S/H).

( only in my wildest dreams could I break it up for $9000+)

gregm13 · July 23, 2007 6:41AM

Does this guy have any football. I'm drooling thinking about a mid-50's est in EXMT to NM condition. Althought I am naive about baseball prices, I'm a little suprised that a 1954 Bowman set in EXMT to NM condition would sell for $3k. Interesting. Is the market saturated w/ 54's or is there not a lot of interest in building the set?

Regards,

Greg M.

originalisbest · July 23, 2007 6:50AM

For whatever reason, it's just not as popular as some other issues around it - 53 B, 53 T, 55 T - but the '54 B baseball set is a nice one.

bifff257 · July 23, 2007 6:52AM

<< He keeps dicking around too much, I'd walk away from the deal. Don't get tied into something you didn't originally want at a price that's too high. >>

carew4me · July 23, 2007 6:55AM

The margin seems a little thin to get too excited.

agree with the velvet hammer approach, I like to be excited about the purchase price and not holding my breath
through delivery, grading, etc.

The key may end up being the 100 "NM or better", thats what I would focus on,

two key grades = too big a risk, if crisp commons are not there to bail you out.

RonBurgundy · July 23, 2007 7:01AM

Yeah, under ordinary circumstances I'm tempted to tell this guy to take a hike. Here's why I'm trying to make it work: the guy has some incredible 1956 Topps baseball and 1969 Topps baseball. A complete '56 White Back run from 1-100, with all stars (Williams, Aaron, Clemente, Koufax, etc.), and the '69 set is nearly complete. He doesn't want to sell these now, but I want him to sell them to me later. Therefore, I'm a little more patient than I normally would be. And for that reason I'd even consider taking the '59's just to break even on them or even lose $100-200, because I think I'd make it up easily on the Bowmans and be in position to get the rest down the road.

Thoughts?

Ron

yankeeno7 · July 23, 2007 7:52AM

If you are the only person he can nail for overpriced sales then he will continue to push the limit with you. You have to set the limits. If he is happy selling to you then he will be back.

jrinck · July 23, 2007 8:37AM

When the seller obviously knows what he has, it ceases to become a "find".

RonBurgundy · July 24, 2007 6:35AM

I made him an offer yesterday and he said he would think it over. I let the phone go silent today thinking he would call me first. Sure enough, he did. But then he said this other supposed buyer had made an offer that amounted to $100 more than mine. Unbelievable. I told him I wasn't going any further. He said he would call me back and let me know one way or the other. I'm not holding my breath.

Ron

yankeeno7 · July 24, 2007 6:39AM

Like that isnt a sad tactic. He offers it to you, doesnt complete negotiations with you, and says he has a higher offer. Thats real crappy whether it be true or not. I guess I see negotiating a bit differently. Finish with one person....be happy with the negotiation or no deal then move on to the next person. I hate it when people try to auction to you instead of fair negotiation. Yes, I know, in the end it is HIS set that he can do what he likes with.

lickablebean · July 24, 2007 6:44AM

Walk away and see what he says.

RonBurgundy · July 24, 2007 6:47AM

Well, I just talked to the guy and he sold them to the other guy, or so he says. I'm pissed, but much more so about the way I was treated than the cards. I had asked the guy on Friday night to give me first shot at them, but that I could not be there until Sunday. He said ok. I make a special effort to go directly from the airport to his house on Sunday when I really wanted to go home and sleep, and then I get shafted like this.

I view negotiations like Yankee No. 7. Finish them with one person and move on. Know your asking price and at what point you'll accept an offer. This clown basically created an auction and set it up so that people would bid against themselves.

The only, and I mean only, thing that kept me from absolutely unloading on this guy was the fact that he has the 56 and 69 Topps that I really want. Come to think of it, how in the world would I ever get those? I should have unloaded on him anyway.

Ron

RipublicaninMass · July 24, 2007 6:51AM

naw Ron, better off to move on and wait rather than firing off. Let it loose on one of the memebers here instead

Getting the guy upset wont make him sell you the cards. I HATED the way you were treated. I am in the real esate biz as well and what the guy did was basiclaly ask for a price, and then not accept what he asked for!

larryallen73 · July 24, 2007 6:51AM

I do not follow either of the sets you mention but it doesn't sound like you found anything "great." Just a collector selling a couple sets for fair market value. You can dicker on the price for a hundred or two lower and/or he can dicker it a hundred or two higher. If you want it then pull the trigger. To me it doesn't sound so great. It sounds like the guy knows what he has and your only hope of "making" any money on it is if he didn't know about grading and you are able to get a couple of key cards in good grades. If that happens then you might come out "ahead." Good luck.

CDsNuts · July 24, 2007 6:57AM

Just for sharts and giggles you should call him and offer $300 more than the other guy did. Then he'll say he needs to think about it and when he calls back to take your offer, tell him you changed your mind. When he cries that you made an offer and you have to stick to it, say something like "Oh, you mean like how you told the other guy you'd sell to him and now you're selling to me? Go f- yourself." Then you feel better and he's the one that's pissed.

Lee

RonBurgundy · July 24, 2007 7:04AM

I like the last suggestion. Any other ideas on how to mess with this guy in a friendly way?

Ron

yankeeno7 · July 24, 2007 7:07AM

Yeah, tell him you lied in bed all night thinking about it and even 3K is a bit out of line. I would drop my offer to 2700. Either he will be pissed or he will say, well, I got thinking about it and if you change your mind on the 3K then I'll take it!

stown · July 24, 2007 7:13AM

<< Just for sharts and giggles you should call him and offer $300 more than the other guy did. Then he'll say he needs to think about it and when he calls back to take your offer, tell him you changed your mind. When he cries that you made an offer and you have to stick to it, say something like "Oh, you mean like how you told the other guy you'd sell to him and now you're selling to me? Go f- yourself." Then you feel better and he's the one that's pissed.

Lee >>

Seconded.

brion8 · July 24, 2007 7:14AM

Use his email address to sign up for free gay porn.

leadoff4 · July 24, 2007 9:05AM

Ron, what state are you in? He sounds like a Fla. retiree to me.

RonBurgundy · July 24, 2007 12:13PM

Here's the latest: I get home tonight and he has left me a message saying the "other guy" has backed out of the deal because his wife went and bought a washer and dryer! So he offered the cards back to me. UNBELIEVABLE.

I'm taking suggestions on how to respond. Of course, I'm not buying them at this point but any smart aleck responses would be welcomed.

Ron

FavreFan1971 · July 24, 2007 12:20PM

Tell him $3000 and include the 1959 for free and a date with his wife

nam812 · July 24, 2007 12:21PM

You say you arent buying them at this point, but I dont believe that for a second.

Since you will buy them anyway, try to get the best deal possible since you are now in the drivers seat. Tell him you spent some of the money and can offer him $2800 for the 1954's or $4500 for everything. Trust me, these arent the last quality vintage cards you will ever see.

CDsNuts · July 24, 2007 12:22PM

I wouldn't mess around. I'd just tell him you don't like to be dicked around so you want nothing to do with him. Tell him he had a sure sale but decided to get greedy and try and squeeze every last penny out of you, so now he can eat his f-ing cards for all you care.

jmbkb4 · July 24, 2007 12:25PM

<< I wouldn't mess around. I'd just tell him you don't like to be dicked around so you want nothing to do with him. Tell him he had a sure sale but decided to get greedy and try and squeeze every last penny out of you, so now he can eat his f-ing cards for all you care. >>

Before doing this, I would "accidentally" wipe a buggar on his Mantle and Mays.

Possible '54 Bowman find in high grade, complete set.......YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THE LATEST!

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