The OFFICIAL "What Belongs In A Modern Basic Player Set?" thread

Porkchopper4

<< <i>Dear Set Registry Member,

I am contacting you because you have a Basic modern player baseball set (play years post 1971) registered. For over two years we have defined the modern player sets to include all “main set” cards. This can include regional, oddball, and collector cards. We had to define the Basic sets because there were too many opinions as to what constituted a “basic” modern player set and we needed to have some consistency.

In recent weeks, however, some members have indicated to us that they would like to see more restrictive basic sets which would include only the very mainstream issues. As a result we have loaded several “primary card” sets.

Because the term “basic” is widely used by vintage card collectors and because “basic” vintage player sets only include the very mainstream cards, we would like to begin using the same terminology for the modern player sets. Therefore, what we will be doing in the next few weeks is changing the name of the “basic” modern player sets to “Basic & Collectors Issues” and change the “primary” modern player sets to “Basic Sets.” In this way, the “basic” set will be the same for both vintage and modern player sets, i.e. only mainstream cards. The current basic sets become, what might be considered, a hybrid between basic and master.

This brings me to the next issue and I need your opinion. We have four primary sets online now: Clemens, Griffey, Ripken, and Ryan. These will become the new “Basic Sets.” Currently, these sets include the following issues:

BOWMAN
BOWMAN'S BEST
DONRUSS
DONRUSS ROOKIES (Rookie card only)
FINEST
FLAIR
FLEER/FLEER TRADITION (if both are present, then either/or)
FLEER UPDATE (Rookie card only)
KELLOGG'S
LEAF
OPC
SCORE
SCORE ROOKIE/TRADED (Rookie card only)
SP/SP AUTHENTIC
SPX
STADIUM CLUB
STUDIO
TOPPS
TOPPS TRADED (Rookie card only)
ULTRA
UPPER DECK

Before we get too far along with the addition of the new “basic” modern player sets, I would like you to review this list and let me know if any cards should be removed or added. Bear in mind, that once we have a consensus, this will become the final “basic” card list for modern player sets. Unlike the current composites we have online, we will not be adding new issues to the basic sets once they are loaded.

In a perfect world, we might have variances from one player set to the next, but due to our limited resources, we need to work with one standard list that will satisfy “most” collectors’ needs. With this in mind, I would appreciate your thoughtful review of the list. We may need to poll several times over the next few weeks before we have our final list. We will also be contacting the owners of the modern basic sets in football, basketball, and hockey to determine the final basic player lists for those sports.

The addition of new “basic” modern player sets will receive priority as they are requested by you.

As a note, there are some cross-over sets, where the player played in the 60s and 70s. Those basic sets will remain basic if the cards in the set are all mainstream. The final basic list may have a minor impact on those sets with the possible addition of few series.

I look forward to hearing your comments.

BJ Searls
Set Registry Manager >>



I personally don't think the above list is perfect but it's a start. What brands do you think should be added/removed and your reasoning behind it?

jdip9

I guess I don't know enough about how 1993-present cards are distributed, but I think the following should be removed:

DONRUSS ROOKIES (Rookie card only)
FLEER UPDATE (Rookie card only)
KELLOGG'S
SCORE ROOKIE/TRADED (Rookie card only)
TOPPS TRADED (Rookie card only)

digicat

<< <i>I guess I don't know enough about how 1993-present cards are distributed, but I think the following should be removed: >>



So, I take it you're going with a strict "if it didn't come from wax, dump it" mentality?

Personally, I consider the update set rookies to be "basic" when the player has no other cards from that year (e.g. 84 Roger Clemens, 86 Barry Bonds, 88 Craig Biggio, 91 Pedro Martinez)

AlanAllen

Kellogg's should definitely be off the list. It makes no sense to include one food card, but exclude some pack-issued cards. Why not include Pacific cards? They were pack-issued, nationally released, and licensed. That's as mainstream and "basic" as it gets, folks. Why Topps Stadium Club but not Topps Heritage? This draft list is boggling.

I think the solution is painfully simple: If a card within the set can be a rookie card by Beckett's definition, it's a basic card. That would include mainly pack-issued mainstream sets, but also some hobby box-issued sets. That's what the hobby has considered a mainstream card for decades, and there is no reason to reinvent the wheel here. Yes, the compositions will look different for different years. Yes, it will require some knowledge of modern cards on PSA's part.

Joe

Alfiewt

I glad to see that PSA is going to fix the modern basic sets. They had the basic sets correct originally, they just need to go back to the original basic set concept. Most importantly they need to have a set criteria for what cards to include and stick with. This draft list is boggling to me too because there doesn't seem to be any sort of criteria for determining what cards should be included. Its just a subjective listing of issues that PSA considers popular. The original basic sets I think had a clear criteria that I think most collectors agreed with.

I think the basic sets should include only base set cards of issues that were:

1) nationally released
2) pack-issued
3) licensed

This is the criteria that was used for the original basic sets. Kellogg's, OPC and Pre-1990 Leaf should definitely not be included in the basic sets. Kelloggs's were not pack issued and OPC and pre-1990 Leaf were just the Canadian version of the regular Topps and Donruss issues.

AlanAllen's suggestion to just use Beckett's definition of cards that would qualify as a rookie card is not for off from this. It would include a few box issued sets like Topps Traded but would not include Kellogg's, OPC and Pre-1990 Leaf.

ArnyVee

I agree with Kellogg's cards to NOT be included. But, I'm torn on those "Topps Traded" & "Donruss Rookies" set type of cards. My feeling is that they should be included if they are considered the player's rookie card.

FavreFan1971

I started a list like this about a year ago and it was rather extensive. I have it on my laptop for work so I will track it down on Monday.

The mentaility I took when I created the list was
1. Distributed nationwide
2. Only include the base card from the set
3. Only include serial #'d cards if the base is serial 3'd (Triple threads, Exquiste)
4. If a serial #'d card must be added it must be the highest #'d run. (i.e. take the 1 of 1000 instead of 1 of 500)
5. When in doubt, don't add it because it can always be added afterwards. Taking cards away from a set is tough to do.

Talk to you all on Monday

RedRomad275

All of my player sets are old enough not to have serial numbered cards. That could be a touchy issue with how many is enough to be included in a Basic set. 500,1000? I definitely agree with the nationally distributed and no food issues and no OPC. The Updates and Rookies sets really don't apply to me but they should only be included if that is the first card produced for that player.

Slightly Medicated Red

twiley

I didnt see this thread but I started another topic and this is basically what I asked...




<< <i> Hello - Can someone explain to me the diffrence between a Player's Basic Set vs Master set?

I assuming (especially with modern) that the Player's Basic set only required the basic cards that came out for that year from all the card companies. The basic set doesnt contain league leader cards, insert cards, and rare autograph cards, or the rare 1/99 etc etc. I assume those cards belong in the Player's Master Set.

The reason I ask is I noticed with non modern player basic sets they all seem right on w/o all the league leaders and oddball stuff. They are listed the master set.

The reason I am bringing this up is I noticed on some of the modern player basic sets there are rare insert autograph cards in the basic set as well as oddball stuff ie Denny's 3-D hologram cards...

Does that sound right?

If not who/where do I contact to fix all this?

Thank you for your time

>>



Tim

FavreFan1971

Found my file. I got up to 1997. Now, the way I did this was only for football and I went by the year they started printing. Bowman died and then came back to life so they are in two spots.

1992 Skybox Primetime
1935-1935 Chicle
1948-1949 Leaf
1948-1955 Bowman
1955-Present Topps
1960-1963 Fleer
1964-1967 Philly
1984-1985 Topps USFL
1989-1990 ProSet
1989-Present Score
1990-1991 Fleer
1990-1997 Action Packed
1991-1992 Pro Set Platinum
1991-1992 Proline Portraits
1991-1993 Wild Card
1991-1996 Upper Deck
1991-1997 Pinnacle
1991-2000 Stadium Club
1991-2002 Pacific
1991-Present Ultra
1991-Present Bowman
1992- Gameday
1992- Playoff
1992- Pro Set Power
1992- Skybox Impact
1992- Topps Gold
1992-1996 Collector's Edge
1992-Current Finest
1993- Select
1993- Skybox
1993- SP-Present
1993-1996 Action Packed Monday Night
1994- Fleer
1994- Pacific Prisims
1994- Playoff Contenders
1994- Proline Live
1994- Sportflics
1994-1994 Pacific Crown
1994-Current UD Collector's Choice
1995- Metal
1995- Pacific Crown Royale
1995- Pacific Grid Iron
1995- Palyoff Prime
1995- Pinnacle Club Collection
1995- Playoff Absolute
1995- Select Certified
1995- Summitt
1995- Zenith
1995-1996 Action Packed Rookies and Stars
1995-1996 Flair
1995-1997 Collector's Edge Excalibur
1996- Fleer Goudy
1996- Leaf
1996- Pacific Dynagon
1996- Pacific Invinceble
1996- Pacific Litho-Cell
1996- Playoff Illusions
1996- Playoff Prime
1996- Playoff Trophy
1996- Press Pass
1996- Score Board Lasers
1996- Topps Laser
1996- Topps Chrome
1996- Ultra Sensations
1996-1998 Donruss
1996-Current Bowman's Best
1997-1997 Collector's Edge eExtrmeme

Some of the sets have no end date because I stopped at 1997

RipublicaninMass

sportsflics
1991 OPC premer (torn)

Porkchopper4

Here is my 2¢ on what brands I feel should be added/removed to the Basic Set and why:

I would remove Kellogg's from the list because it didn't come from a pack, it came from inside a food box.Because of the above, I would not add Bazooka to the list.Classic brand cards are from a boxed game (I believe), not packs.I agree with the previous poster about adding Sportflics. I was able to obtain several packs of Sportflics when they came out, therefore, if I was able to find them in my city.....count 'em.If PSA wants to add Finest and Stadium Club (Topps products), SP and SPx (Upper Deck products), Flair and Ultra (Fleer products), Bowman's Best (Bowman product) and Studio (Leaf product) to the list, how about we add Pinnacle, Select, Select Certified, Summit, and Zenith (Score products), Triple Play (Donruss product), Emotion (Fleer product), and Collector's Choice (Upper Deck product). Any others?As for the Pacific brand, I must admit that I know very little about their distribution. Whether they were in packs or not. Distributed nationally or not. Perhaps I could get some info/opinions on this particular brand.Here is my take on the whole "No OPC in the Basic Sets". I am assuming this was written by American collectors. What about the Canadian collectors on the Registry? I would imagine that to them an OPC card is more Basic Set material than Topps or Leaf is more Basic Set material than Donruss. For that reason do you include both? Even if you don't, you still must include 1990 and later Leaf cards and 1993 and 1994 OPC cards.Then, what about OPC Premier cards?

There are some things to think about in coming to a conclusion on which of this card brands should be added to our Basic Sets.