1948 World Series Home Rull Ball - Team Signed - Updated 7/22

Cladiator

A family member gave me this baseball some time ago and I know next to nothing about it. I would really appreciate it if any of you could shed some light on the people that signed it, teams they belong to, date of the signing and potential value. Thanks folks.

Two signatures I can't read so I've included pics of those...

Signatures:

Hank Greenberg
William McKechnie
Don Black
Jim Hegan
Larry Doby
Beto Avila
Johnny Berardino
Lou Boudreau
Cal Dorsett
Bob Feller
Allen Gettel
Walter Judnich
Ray Murray
Eddie Robinson
Al Rosen
Pat Seerey
Thurman Tucker
Johnny Price
Ed Garcia

Mystery Name #1 TRIS SPEAKER





Mystery Name #2 HAROLD RUEL

Downtown1974

Top one is Tris Speaker, 2nd. ?

preownedautos

Bob is definately right! The top is Tris Speaker. But I don't know who the other one is either. It looks like a lot (maybe even all) of Cleveland Indian players from various years, but definately not a team signed ball. For example, Speaker played with Cleveland from 1916 to 1926, but Feller didn't start playing with Cleveland until 1936 and Doby didn't start playing with Cleveland until 1947. 3 Hall of Famers (among a few others) from 3 different decades. You might go to Google and search Cleveland Indian rosters from the that time period to identify the other mystery player.

MooseDog

Harold "Muddy" Ruel

Died in 1963 and is a desirable signature.

Cladiator

Thanks guys for getting the two mystery names. From the family history of the ball I know that all of the signatures were obtained at the same time so I was assuming they were all from the same team and time frame. Family rumor has it that the ball may have been taken to the 1948 World Series and signed by all of the people then...possible? Anyone know the significance of these people all signing the same ball on the same day? Does this ball have any kind of collector value to it?

preownedautos

You could be right. There are 5 Hall of Famers on the ball including Boudreau, Feller, Greenberg, Doby and Speaker. Boudreau, Feller and Doby were all part of the Cleveland 1948 World Series team. I could see Speaker being there since he was a former player/manager with the Indians, but Greenberg played his entire career with the Tigers. Anyway, Greenberg is somewhat difficult autograph to find as he died in 1986. Boudreau passed away in 2001 and Doby in 2003 so their autographs are still easy to find. They also each signed several certified autograph cards (Fleer Greats of the Game). Feller is still alive and whores out his signature any chance he gets. However, Speaker passed away in 1958 and that's what really makes the ball unique and valuable. I would guess $1500 to $2000, but I may be way off.

Cladiator

Wow! Thanks for the great info preownedautos... I don't know anything about sports collectabilia and am only really a coin collector. Are there any baseball authentication companies that can certify it as being authentic, the way PCGS does for coins?

Also, you say you may be off on the value, but are you guessing conservatively?

Cladiator

<< <i>but Greenberg played his entire career with the Tigers. >>

Ok so my fiance and I have done a bit of research tonight and apparently Mr. Greenberg was hired by the Cleveland Indians owner Bill Veeck as farm system director in...you guessed it...1948. He later became general manager in 1950. So that would explain his presence at the World Series in '48 with the Injuns.

Also, from what we can find online it sure looks like the Cleveland Indians actually won the 1948 World Series. Am I correct in assuming this is going to increase the value of the ball?

Lastly, when we got the ball it came with an old piece of paper where our family member (deceased now) had scribbled "World Series Home Run Ball." Now, if in fact this was a ball caught in the crowd as the result of being hit for a home run how in the heck would one ever be able to confirm this?

Barndog

1948 was the last time Cleveland won a World Series. Each team (Boston Braves was the opponent) hit four home runs.

Cladiator

Here are pics...

Barndog

where's the piece of paper that came with the ball stating it was a home run ball?

Cladiator

<< <i>where's the piece of paper that came with the ball stating it was a home run ball? >>

Here ya go.

ps. The stuff below the home run ball line is from another ball that we got from the same person, a Pacific Coast League ball. We haven't even started researching that one yet.

pss. No, that isn't my hand in the pic. Say hi to the future Mrs. Cladiator

samspop

That is one incredible ball. Most of the auto'd balls from this era are so faded that the signatures are difficult to see at best. This is one of the nicest ones I have seen.

Thanks for the pics....

TNTonPMS

That is a really nice baseball !
I think you can send a few pics to Heritage and they will /can tell you what it is worth .
As far as Authenticating the Baseball , PSA or JSA .
Best of luck , and I'm more than certain it is authentic .

If I had to ball park what it would get at auction, I'd say in the 2600-3000 range but the only thing that may hurt it is the fact it has a fair amount of shellack on the baseball fpr preservation purposes .

I know that JSA offers a very detailed authentication process where they look into everything about the baseball and try to get every piece of information they can about it , But that particular process is around the 500.00 neighborhood and it may not be worth taking that much off the overall worth of this baseball when it is all said and done if you're thinking of auctioning the baseball .

Beautiful baseball and thank you for sharing the pictures with us Mr. Cladiator.

Cladiator

Wow, thank you guys for all the info. It's quite a surprise.

Cladiator

I'm going to call PSA tomorrow and talk to them about the ball. Does anyone know who I should ask to speak to or should I just talk to the customer service person that happens to answer the phone?

Cladiator

I made some calls to family members today and got some more info. Apparently the guy that gave us the ball attended the Worlds Series games that were in Cleveland, none of the games in Boston. He was 14 years old at the time and he went with his father. His father actually caught the ball in the stands after one of the players hit a home run in the Cleveland stadium. After that game the two of them went down to the club house and got every one of the signatures on the ball. Pretty neat stuff.

We know that a total of 8 home runs (4 per team) were hit in the series. Does anyone know how many were hit at the Cleveland stadium and who were the players that hit them?


Edit to change a a bit: The ball was taken onto the field immediately after the game and brought down to the dugout where all the players were. That is where/when the signatures were obtained. Not from the clubhouse after the players left the field.

Barndog

<< <i>I made some calls to family members today and got some more info. Apparently the guy that gave us the ball attended the Worlds Series games that were in Cleveland, none of the games in Boston. He was 14 years old at the time and he went with his father. His father actually caught the ball in the stands after one of the players hit a home run in the Cleveland stadium. After that game the two of them went down to the club house and got every one of the signatures on the ball. Pretty neat stuff.

We know that a total of 8 home runs (4 per team) were hit in the series. Does anyone know how many were hit at the Cleveland stadium and who were the players that hit them? >>



hit by either Larry Doby, Dale Mitchell, or Jim Hegan

nam812

Of the 3 games in Cleveland, here are the 7 homeruns.

Game 3 - None.

Game 4 - Larry Doby for Cleveland in the 3rd inning and Marv Rickert for Boston in the 7th inning.

Game 5 - Bob Elliot for Boston in the 1st inning, Dale Mitchell for Cleveland in the 1st inning, Bob Elliot for Boston in the 3rd inning, Jim Hegan for Cleveland in the 4th inning, and Bill Salkeld for Boston in the 6th inning.

Cladiator

Thank you guys for the quick and excellent information. I wish to God there were some way of knowing who actually hit the ball. Unfortunately both of the two people that were there are now deceased. No one in the family remembers which game it was, who hit the ball or even what part of the stadium they were sitting in. I guess the best we can do is narrow it down to those players that hit HR's in the 4th and 5th games.

Barndog

<< <i>Of the 3 games in Cleveland, here are the 7 homeruns.

Game 3 - None.

Game 4 - Larry Doby for Cleveland in the 3rd inning and Marv Rickert for Boston in the 7th inning.

Game 5 - Bob Elliot for Boston in the 1st inning, Dale Mitchell for Cleveland in the 1st inning, Bob Elliot for Boston in the 3rd inning, Jim Hegan for Cleveland in the 4th inning, and Bill Salkeld for Boston in the 6th inning. >>



they didn't throw the "enemy" home run balls back on the field in those days?

Cladiator

Good news!

I have coming to me in a day or two the 1948 World Series on DVD from Netflix. We are going to studiously watch game 4 and game 5 for when the home runs were hit.

This hopefully will tell us...

1) if the homeruns were actually hit into an area with people sitting
2) if the homeruns hit by the Braves were kept or thrown back onto the field
3) if in fact we are lucky enough to get a relatively good view of the folks that caught the ball we can cross reference that to family photos we have of the same time period. This may potentially give us dead solid evidence and nail it down 100%.

Fingers crossed...

jimq112

I don't mean to be a disbeliever, but the ball started out being a ball that was taken to the game, then in just a few hours it developed into a game used home run ball from the last time the Indians won the world series? That's a pretty good turn of events over the space of a few hours.

If it is a game used home run ball, signed by the indians in the dugout like you say, just after the end of the game, it better be hit by doby or rickert in game 4. They took winning and losing much more seriously in 1948 than they do today, and there's no way in the world that they stayed after the game signing autographs after getting pounded 11-5 in game 5. The ace of the staff just got pounded, and they're headed to a game the next afternoon in Boston 500 miles away?

The last thing on those guys' minds is to be signing autographs in the dugout. Didn't happen.

You really want to look closely at game 4, not so much game 5, if the ball is what you hope it is.

stown

<< <i> don't mean to be a disbeliever, but the ball started out being a ball that was taken to the game, then in just a few hours it developed into a game used home run ball from the last time the Indians won the world series? That's a pretty good turn of events over the space of a few hours. >>



Didn't notice that until you said something.

However, I'm assuming he didn't know the history until after seeing the note.

jerrywest45

When are you going to offer to sell it to any of us?

I'm skeptical...I hope it is legit.

Cladiator

Jimq, you bring up some good points.

We got the ball sometime ago and to be honest with you, forgot all about it. That weekend we found the ball and I made the original thread based on info that I thought was told to me years ago but I really wasn't too sure about any of it.

Once I found that the ball may be something special we started making phone calls in an attempt to turn our bad memories into the actual story. A couple family members had similarly bad memories as ours so we kept calling. Eventually we got hold of the people that were closest to the man who originally owned the ball and that's where we got the best information, which is the current information that I've posted about.

From the start to now the entire thing has been an evolving story as we talk to people who only have one or two memories of the ball and it's story. Piecing that story together was a task but I'm confident we have it down.

Cladiator

<< <i>When are you going to offer to sell it to any of us?

I'm skeptical...I hope it is legit. >>

Skepticism is expected and more than ok.

As far as selling goes... If the ball does infact turn out to be what I believe it to be we may very well not be selling it at all. However, if it does get sold it won't be privately. I'll have to find a reputable auction house to handle it. A friend of mine suggested even offering it to the Cleveland Indians franchise which, if we decide not to keep it, will be one avenue that I will look into.

Cladiator

We've also thought about trying to contact Bob Feller to see if he can remember and confirm our story or not.

jrinck

Netflix rents DVDs of old baseball games? Wow, I did not know that!

lostdart58

<< <i>We've also thought about trying to contact Bob Feller to see if he can remember and confirm our story or not. >>



Feller is easy enough to contact.....I think he is at the upcoming National this year signing..

MeteoriteGuy

The only home run ball I ever got, had a couple nasty marks on it before it got to me. So.....any marks on the ball?

Mark

Cladiator

<< <i>So.....any marks on the ball? >>

Yup, sho 'nuff. Here's two...

Country

What does the "Pacific Coast League" and "Jerry Adair" notations signify on the legal pad paper? Was this ball stored with other baseball artifacts?

Carew29

It would be down to three people.

Game 4 HR'S
Rickert
Doby

Game 5 HR'S
Elliott --hit 2 that game.

Cladiator

<< <i>What does the "Pacific Coast League" and "Jerry Adair" notations signify on the legal pad paper? Was this ball stored with other baseball artifacts? >>

We got another ball from the same man at the same time. The second ball is signed by 13 players, one of them was Bill Adair. I'm not sure where you say "Jerry", the note only says "Bill". We know absolutely nothing about this ball and have kind of decided not to tackle it until the MLB ball is taken care of. Do you know anything about the league or Adair?

Allen

c'mon guys the guy has 20,000+ posts. Even if they are not on this forum- you still got to give him a bit of chance before you tear him to shreds. That is crazy that NetFlix has the 48 WS games on DVD.

TNTonPMS

I'm enjoying this thread , watching to see what happens with this baseball , as a matter of fact, it is starting to light a fire under my behind to find out something more about my 1932 Yankees team signed baseball .

Imagine my baseball was "{ The Called Shot } ?

I'm a dreamer of course . . But it is not absolutely impossible either .

Keep up the great detective work guys !

onlyanumber

<< <i>c'mon guys the guy has 20,000+ posts. Even if they are not on this forum- you still got to give him a bit of chance before you tear him to shreds. That is crazy that NetFlix has the 48 WS games on DVD. >>




I agree.

Cladiator

<< <i>c'mon guys the guy has 20,000+ posts. Even if they are not on this forum- you still got to give him a bit of chance before you tear him to shreds. That is crazy that NetFlix has the 48 WS games on DVD. >>

Something I've learned in those 20,000+ posts over on the Coin Forum and the now defunct Open Forum was how this place works Don't sweat it, this coin nerd can take it.

Tabe

<< <i>That is crazy that NetFlix has the 48 WS games on DVD. >>


They don't. They have the highlight video that MLB made that year for the World Series - the same highlight video they've made every year since 1945.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Cleveland_Indians_Vintage_World_Series_Films/70065985?strkid=43778716_9_0

Tabe

WinPitcher

Good luck Glad! Nice find btw.

Steve

TNTonPMS

Man !
I hadn't even noticed 20 K plus posts !
That got to be some kinda record in itself . . .

Cladiator

We finally got around to watching the '48 series on DVD this weekend.

Unfortunately the cameras did not zoom in on the crowd when a home run was hit like they do today. The cameras did show where in the crowd the ball was hit but only from a great distance.

From what we've learned here on the forum it was pretty much between either game 4 or game 5. We now believe the it was most likely game 5. The DVD makes a big hub-ub about all the big time executives showing up for game 5. One of the executives was Cleveland Indians Vice President Hank Greenberg. Hank Greenberg is one of the signataries on our ball. The only two Cleveland homeruns in game 5 were hit by Mitchell in the 1st inning and Hegan in the 4th inning. Going purely on gut instinct I would assume if the ball were hit by Mitchell he would have been one of the guys to sign it. With that in mind, since Hegan did sign our ball, I think it's safe to say that the most likely possibility for our ball is that it was a game 5, Hegan homerun ball. No dead set concrete proof though.

BobaFett72

Damn you coinboy!
I suggest you have a very generous giveaway and the only folks eliglible are die hard Indians fans HINT HINT!

i hope its real and the sigs are legit. Thats a great artifact!

Leo

Cladiator

Too bad the ball won't be certified and ready for the auction block in time for the 8/3/2007 auction from Mastro. It's in Cleveland and I'd think that would be the absolute perfect venue for auctioning it. Are there any other large auctions coming up in the next several months?

jimq112

Clad, there's an article in today's usa today regarding a "home run expert" who has a huge database of home run records. His name is david vincent, he's in centreville VA near Washington DC.

link to article
another article I found on google about him

I don't know if that guy can help you authenticate your baseball or maybe even supply more information about that series but if you can find him I'm sure it's worth a try.
It says he's the official scorer for the Nationals 202.675.NATS(6287) or maybe email them at their website here.