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Lajoie hits .426 in 1901 !!!

jaxxrjaxxr Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
I guess I have not kept up to date with research done on older stats.

Know they gave Hack Wilson an extra RBI, took a point ( by a fractional measure) off Cobb's career BA, and a couple others.

Just saw today online in BB Reference, that the highest BA in modern baseball (1901 forward) is now .426 by Nap Lajoie. He used to have the record for AL only, at .422, done for the A's back in 1901. Now I find out he has passed Rogers Hornsby's mark ( NL and Majors ) of .424 done in 1924, and has a .426 average for the 1901 season !

When did this adjustment happen, and how did those extra hits become found ?? He added one AB and gained 3 hits.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

image
This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.

Comments

  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You didn't hear? The Yankees signed Lajoie for the rest of the season for a pro rated salary of $26 Million. He went 3 for 4 last night! image

    Shane

  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to make light of your discovery, that is interesting. I wonder who came up with that?

    Shane

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I remember when the Cobb adjustment happened, but I thought that was part of a one-time, we'll-look-at-every-box-score-ever project. If they're still finding things on huge HOF stars like Lajoie, it makes you wonder what else there is to look at.
    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    They adjusted for the number of hotdogs sold at each ballpark.

    image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    That is interesting... I took a hit on a number of different websites, and most show Lajoie with a .426 BA in 1901. The HOF website shows him at .422 in 1901. I wonder what happened.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Gotta love people who would rather instigate than offer help. I think as more and more data has become available to the layperson, you have more checking and double checking of game logs, and verifying information that may have been improperly calculated....hence the adding of Hack's RBI a couple years ago, and now this.

  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    That's very insightful sitizenkanemeister. You exemplify your own negative commentary. image
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771


    << <i>That's very insightful sitizenkanemeister. You exemplify your own negative commentary. image >>



    What negative commentary? Simply offering that if someone is going to be derisive, then perhaps that person should think twice before posting...that is all.

    imageimageimage
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    After reviewing the play, the 3rd baseman did not misplay the ball.

    Batter is awarded a hit.

    First down!
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    Sitizencane..........your comments are derisive, not mine. I only posted an acknowledging response to the original topic, that I thought was intersting after I looked into it a little. You added no value other than being a piss ant.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771


    << <i>Sitizencane..........your comments are derisive, not mine. I only posted an acknowledging response to the original topic, that I thought was intersting after I looked into it a little. You added no value other than being a piss ant. >>



    I wasn't referring to your posts...not sure why you are taking offense?

  • jaxxrjaxxr Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    It seems very odd to me, that MLB had no big fanfare and/or major announcement of this new record.

    This is after all, one of hitting's triple crown components, and affected the ALL TIME BEST SEASON BATTING AVERAGE !!!

    Perhaps since fans would not be able to pay to see it, or watch it on TV with high-priced advertising, MLB has no interest in letting us know about some major records. The lack of respect for the past, and baseball's statistical history is very disheartening.

    image
    This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    A poster that has been bammed 6 times is telling me how to post?

    image



    << <i>The lack of respect for the past, and baseball's statistical history is very disheartening. >>



    You are absolutely correct. While sometimes a call is changed a day or two afterwards, to make a change over 100 years later is just plain wrong. What new evidence made them make this change?

    They must have found the missing Zapruder film..
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Jaxxr,

    How would you feel if you researched the box scores and found that ROberto Clemente got double credit for one of his hits???
  • jaxxrjaxxr Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    Skin,

    I dont quite grasp the point you are trying to make,
    If a record is correct, regardless if adjusted, researched, discoverd, or even original....it is a true honest measure of performance. No matter if a player is well liked or a bad guy, it is a representation of his accomplishments. I have absolutely no problems with that.

    I always "knew" Rogers Hornsby had the best season via BA ever, done in 1924, now I learn that is false, Nap lajoie is the pace setter with .426 in 1901. The real shame is that MLB makes gives no significant notice of this change. Cobbs career BA and Wilsons RBI seasonal records were adjusted, however no changes in their respective positions as leaders.

    This "discovery" did change the rank and actual person who became the best BA performer ever !!! To me, perhaps I'm a minority, that is truly an important thing, and should have been widely proclaimed by MLB. Stats are quite important , maybe only to a few like myself, and I feel it would be proper for MLB to let us know when such major changes do happen, and why not an explaination of the new AB and 3 hits, who researched, when was the study done, how, Etc. ???

    image
    This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Jaxxr,

    I meant, how would you feel if you were the one that discovered that Clemente actually only had 2,999 hits. Would you feel to be a bit of the bearer of bad news to announce that he no longer resided in the 3,000 hit club?

    You are correct about Lajoie...I never heard about that myself. No big announcments were made, and it just kind of snuck in there. It deserves more explanation and attention.

    It is probably because both players are from so long ago, and they aren't named Ruth, Cobb, or Gehrig. Most baseball fans are not of the historic nature, and unlike guys like us, most fans are far less appreciateve of the history of the older players.

  • jaxxrjaxxr Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    "unlike guys like us, most fans are far less appreciateve of the history of the older players."

    Skin,
    I was not really aware you were much of a fan of the older players, those we could never have seen play. Please pardon my misconception, if so, and I would sincerely enjoy your insight on some possible future posts. Most do not recall Elmer Flick, Toad Ramsey, Art Devlin, Gavy Cravath, and a host of others who were not top-notch , overly popular superstars.

    Baseball does have a somewhat uniform and consistent past, qute unlike other major sports, MLB truly missed the boat by not proclaiming a new important record, even though from 1924 or 1901.


    image
    This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Jaxxr,

    I am a fan of history, be it American history, World History, or baseball history.

    You are probably confusing my level of respect/like for the older players with some of my posts on putting players into proper context, value, and how an era can inflate a players true value/ability etc... Fans have a tendency to do two things with older players...either severly over rate them, or severely under rate them. I look for the truth as best I can. Sometimes the truth means that a player from that era isn't quite as good historically as many believe. Sometimes it means that a guy from that era is much better than most know. But the one thing that cannot be confused is my level of respect for the players from before the war.

    If a genie gave me three wishes, one of them would be to time travel...and not for gain of wealth, but for being able to immerse myself in the feelings of an era, and into the trials and tribulations that others went through that helped shape the current society we live in. These people are forgotten and treated as mere after thoughts by most U.S. citizens. The level of knowledge of most U.S. citizens on history is terrible. If you say "Sam Adams" people think beer instead of the patriot. Quite sad.



  • Ichiro51fanIchiro51fan Posts: 379


    << <i>Jaxxr,

    I meant, how would you feel if you were the one that discovered that Clemente actually only had 2,999 hits. Would you feel to be a bit of the bearer of bad news to announce that he no longer resided in the 3,000 hit club? >>




    Hmmm... sounds like a plot for a movie... oh wait, it already was... and a pretty bad one at that, lol!
    Jim G
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    Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
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