Open letter to PSA/DNA authenticators on Sid Luckman autograph

gregm13

All,

I have submitted 3 Sid Luckman autographed cards for my HOF auto set and all 3 were rejected. Upon close examination, 2 of the 3 appear to be very similiar and are similiar to other older Sid Luckman autographs that I have seen. Below are scans of the 2 cards:

The first auto'd card I bought off Jack Wallin who insists up and down that the autograph is real (and the card was signed somewhere between 1977 and 1982):



The 2nd autograph I bought off E-Bay:



I have examined the cards and have gotten opinions from Jack Wallin, CJ from UKRedskins and a couple of other prominant autograph dealers and they argree that the 2 autographs are authentic. What really drives me crazy is that examples of similiar autographs are shown on the PSA/DNA autograph library. The following 3 autographs were all downloaded from the PSA/DNA website as examples of Sid Luckman's autograph:







If you compare the 3 PSA/DNA examples against my 2 cards, you will notice many similiarities. The most telltale sign is how the "k" in Luckman is written. From what I understand, Luckman's autograph changed drastically over the years and for the latter part of his life, he had a secretary sign autgraphs that were requested through the mail.

Based upon the evidence shown above, I would like PSA/DNA to re-evaluate the cards that were rejected and consider the possibility of authenticating the autographs.

Regards,

Greg M.

roastedcat

Hey Greg,

They might reject it again, I don't bother with sending stuff to PSA/DNA anymore to get slabbed in fear of being rejected. I had recently sent in some cards I had made by Knuckles only to be rejected by PSA/DNA I had a few autographs recieved in person fail to pass their standards, as well as had items cracked out of PSA/DNA slabbed holders to be inserted on custom cards come back as questionable even though I submitted the PSA tags and a scan of autograph. Why even waste my time and money, I don't bother with it anymore. The PSA customer rep says once the autograph is cracked out of the holder it's no longer guarnteed. I say baloney!!! This is just my 2 cents...

jradke4

Greg,

I tend to agree with you. Though I have never really talked to Jack about the source of his autos, since he is a professional sports photographer, with many nice credits to him, I have always assumed that he got many of these autos in person. I hope that you have success with your quest. I have one just like yours that you know all to well. I thought that I had the Luckman case solved with my 02 SP Legendary Cut. It was returned to me ungraded. After talking to Joe O and showing him that none of the 02 cards had print runs he said that the decision to not grade it was a mistake by someone. So I do have the case solved. I just have to paying shipping again to have it graded.

I have always been worried about sending them autos that I have obtained in person and them telling me that they arent real. When I have seen the person sign the item about two feet from my eyes. Thats the roll of the dice with any auto authentication that we would deal with. Sometimes I wonder the logic of really sending some of this stuff in. But I do like the protection and future proceeds that could come from selling items in the future, either my wife or potential kids, as I am unlikely to sell to much of my collection.

Jay

Stingray

The one thing that I notice on the Football Greats card is that the 'S' is different. It has a rounded type loop on it while all the other 'S' that you show have a downward curve to that part of the loop.

duner

they don't look anything like mine either

fandango

<< <i>The one thing that I notice on the Football Greats card is that the 'S' is different. It has a rounded type loop on it while all the other 'S' that you show have a downward curve to that part of the loop. >>




i agree definately a forge, the "S" is all wrong....

the others are questionable also...

I rather have PSA reject questionable items rather then slab everything! good job PSA

gregm13

The S isn't that far off. Maybe you've misunderstood my original post. The first 2 cards are mine and the bottom 3 are from the PSA/DNA website. The S in my first card (1977 Touchdown) is the same as the first example.

Greg M.

fandango

i was looking at the correct 2 scans.....

in the first scan, the "S" is ok, but its the "L" that is off, it has a reverse inclination, and the left hand tail is missing which never happens in the certified Luckman graphs)

in the second scan, the "S" is wrong, there is no sharp reverse in the finishing tail of the "S",.....

these inconsistencies in what is usually the most consistent part of a sig (the Capital Letters), make me believe PSA was correct in their judgment...

gregm13

The problem w/ Luckman is that his handwriting was VERY inconsistent over the years. The S in Sid and L in Luckman varied - just look at the 3 PSA/DNA "authenticated" examples. The tilt varied, as did the width of the loops in the S and L. If the look at the 1977 Touchdown card, it is very consisent w/ the 3rd PSA/DNA example whereas the Swell card is more consistent w/ the 2nd PSA/DNA example. If you notice, the most consistent part of his autograph was the "kman" and how he tailed off after the "m" or "a".

JMHO.

Greg M.

fandango

greg, this inconsistency you mention is what makes it difficult (in general) to say with 100% certainty, that Luckman's Autos are authentic..

thus the PSA rejections....

makes slabbed Autos of his even more desirable I would think...

rube26105

i have one on a 50 bowman card but can get the image to come up for some reason, it is on the 50 bowman registry i am # 11 and 39 i think on psa/dna set of 50 bowman,the card sucks as some goober taped in in an album years ago but the auto is nice,wish i could get it on here for ya, its an early one for sure-but says file is too big and keeps deleting it
rubesmilitariaandsportcards.com

rube26105

mine on the 50 bowman registry on the set i am working on looks like the one that duner has on there with the pic, i just cant get mine uploaded as psa hates me, image is too big, its not too big to be on the registry??????
randy
rube26105 on ebay
"if ya go where the eskimos go,dont ya eat that yellow snow" frank zappa

rube26105

here is my 50 bowman,i finally figured out how to get a stupid picture uploaded onto here!! this is an early one back in 50's ,all of mine came from same estate and his uncle got em at games in 50's -part of the auto on the end is under the tape, and the goober that put the tape on there was a long time ago!~!!!!!!!! everyones auto naturally changes over the years, i know my handwriting has as well, i supose it just depends on whether they are going by autos that he did when he was young or when he was old and retired,thats the only explanation i have,i think they should take that into consideration as well,whether someone signed it when they were 27 or 77 makes a huge difference!! i have a tony candeo 50 bowman rookie im going to send in along with 7 others from this set, i have 7 on the registy now,they all came from the same estate so they should all pass, but with psa ya never know like you said
randy