Ike Experts - Grading question

taxbuster1040

I have submitted a few ikes to Ngc recently and have had some come back with au58 rather than ms 63 or better i was expecting. What are the places on the ikes that is the first to show wear? Its funny I did better with my first batches submitted that came back ms64 and even ms 65. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, Do you think that Ngc has tightened up on any grading of Ikes rececently?

Rampage

Are you slabbing them for resale purposes? If you are, then you are hurting yourself sending them to NGC. NGC slabbed IKEs bring far less than their PCGS counterparts. At NGC, a modern coin fee is $12.50, whereas at PCGS, it is $14.00. I'd much rather spend the extra $1.50 to get top dollar returns.

With that said, I have heard of some high graded NGC IKEs cross over to PCGS at the same grade, such as a 1971D in MS67. I've also heard of a handful of 1972P IKEs in NGC MS65 cross to PCGS at the same grade. Of course, each cross over attempt is $30.00 and if you send in 5 1972P in MS65 for cross over and only one makes it, then you have wasted all the money that you would have made (and then some) on the single PCGS 65 in cross over fees.

Rampage

What dates are you sending in hoping to get MS64s and 65s? Hopefully not 1977 or 1978. Other dates and MMs come to mind, too.

Gandyjai

Don't feel bad,....those 58's have a way of sneaking up on you! I got one in my last batch as well...

Place to look for slight wear is on the top of Ikes forehead and his jaw. Make sure to tilt back and forth
under good lighting to check,...but even then, one can sneak by every now and then.

I have 2 batches of Ikes at NGC right now and don't think they have tightened up....They can pretty
tough on Ikes.

Brian

I Love FEP's, Variety & Error Ikes!

Rampage

When I first started submitting IKEs, I sent them to PCGS and got several MS64s and 65s and one 66. I was so thrilled. I barely broke even selling my MS64s on eBay, but I did break even, or nearly even, so I was happy with it. I know how VERY tough it is to find nice IKEs that will grade at least 65. They are just hard. I am now very picky about the coins I send in and maybe send in two or three IKEs a year to be graded. The last IKE I sent in was a 77D that came back MS66.

I now know what an MS64 looks like and will not send those in. I've got to be 100% sure it will at least grade MS65 before sending it in. And even on some dates, and MS65 will only make you a few dollars on eBay. Not really worth the effort of sending them in and listing them on eBay.

Gandyjai

NGC can be just as tough as PCGS....Here are my last two NGC to PCGS Crossover results....

Order #20087839 / Submission #3555954
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 03936505 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
2 1 03936506 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
3 1 03936507 7407 1971-D $1 US MS66
4 1 03936508 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
5 1 03936509 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
6 1 03936510 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
7 1 03936511 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
8 1 03936512 7407 1971-D $1 US MS65
9 1 03936513 7407 1971-D $1 US MS64
10 1 03936514 7407 1971-D $1 US DNC
11 1 03936515 7407 1971-D $1 US DNC


Order #20086692 / Submission #3460993
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 03960754 7407 1971-D $1 US MS66
2 1 03960755 7407 1971-D $1 US MS66
3 1 03960756 7407 1971-D $1 US DNC
4 1 03960757 7407 1971-D $1 US DNC
5 1 03960758 7407 1971-D $1 US MS66
6 1 03960759 87409 1972 $1 Type 1 US MS65
7 1 03960760 7409 1972 $1 Type 3 US MS65
8 1 03960761 7409 1972 $1 Type 3 US MS65
9 1 03960762 7409 1972 $1 Type 3 US MS65
10 1 03960763 87409 1972 $1 Type 1 US DNC
11 1 03960764 7410 1972-D $1 US DNC
12 1 03960765 7410 1972-D $1 US DNC
13 1 03960766 7410 1972-D $1 US DNC
14 1 03960767 7416 1974-D $1 US DNC
15 1 03960768 7419 1976 $1 Type 2 US MS66
16 1 03960769 7420 1976-D $1 Type DNC
17 1 03960770 7420 1976-D $1 Type 1 DNC
18 1 03960771 7423 1977 $1 US MS65
19 1 03960772 7425 1978 $1 US DNC

Total of crossing 18 out of 28...Even got one upgrade! (a 71-D 65 up to 66)

Brian

I Love FEP's, Variety & Error Ikes!

taxbuster1040

Well, I guess i just got spoiled by my first submission of ikes to ngc... The dates I had submitted are the 1972's type 1 and 3 previously and for this batch i am currently thinking are 1971's and 1972 D. I have the 5 free submissions to ngc and have just looked at these coins again under the light. If the 1972d's arent ms-66 I am going to throw in the towel. There are no marks on the jaw or forehead and there is no breaks in the luster anywhere on the coin. I have ngc graded ms-66 ikes that i bought that dont look as good as these 72d's. If I get a good result this time with ngc, I will join pcgs and submit about 10 more that look just about as good to them. But i have to do better than those darn au-58's i just got back.... By the way i have a 1972 type 2 that seems to have a lot of scratches in the obverse field. But i dont see a break in luster on the forehead and chin under the light. I was thinking of giving it a shot, although i dont think it could be more than an ms-63.

bronze6827

I don't know that NGC has tightened up on Ikes. While I do think they are looser on Ikes overall than PCGS, they still have their place as a reputable TPG for Ikes. However, I do agree with the comments above concerning wear and scuff marks. If you are just looking for higher market value don't waste your time and money unless you are undoubtably sure your are going to at least get a 65 at PCGS - and that only applies to some mint marks. Others require an even higher standard.

Let's put if this way, I spent the ENTIRE day at Baltimore yesterday, was able to pick through Ikes almost the whole time, and came home with exactly 2 buisness strikes - and they were just good 65's for an album. Each of the best looking Blue Ikes I saw had something holding it back from a 68.

Here's a submission I did a while back of NGC coins that I selected out of an even bigger lot becuase I truley thought they would cross:

Submission #9043855
1 1971 $1 MS66 US DNC
2 1974-D $1 MS66 US DNC
3 1974 $1 MS65 US DNC
4 1976 $1 Type 1 MS65 US DNC
5 1978-D $1 MS66 US DNC
6 1972-D $1 MS66 US DNC
7 1972 $1 Type 1 MS65 US DNC
8 1972 $1 Type 1 MS65 US DNC
9 1972 $1 Type 3 MS65 US DNC
10 1972 $1 Type 3 MS65 US DNC
11 1974 $1 MS66 US DNC

The sad but typical part is that I ended up cracking out most of these and they all hit the same grade that they were holdered in at NGC.

19Lyds

Careful on those 72-D's as a good looking coin that has nice luster and a minimum of marks that looks like a 66 may have a weak strike which brings it down a point or two. Check out the hair which is a good indicator of strike quality. Also check out the IN of the motto. Some of these coins can have "flat" IN's near the edge which hurts your grade.

Remember that PCGS need an above average strike for a 65 grade.

Additionally, don't overlook your reverse! Check for circulation abrasion on the eagles head and wings! Most noticeabl;e on the top of the wings. These areas show up as dull abrasions that you really need to look for in your loupe. The wings can also mask some aweful looking hits.

Good Luck!

taxbuster1040

Thanks for the advice.... I will keep you posted.....