Hey SaintGuru-- how significant is the upcoming Hesselgesser sale of Saints by the Goldbergs?

Longacre

I was taking a look at the most recent issue of CW, and the Goldbergs announced that they are auctioning the Hesselgesser collection of Saints. How significant is this collection? The pictures looked nice. Does it compare well with the other big collections that have recently crossed the block, such as Morse?



[Disclaimer for fc-- I am neither Larry nor Ira Goldberg, nor am I Mr. Hesselgesser. This thread is not intended to be a promotion of said collection, nor an endorsement. Bidding in auctions carries some inherent level of risk, which the bidder should be aware of before participating. Void where prohibited. All rights reserved.

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mgoodm3

With a name like Hesselgesser, it's got to be good™

RYK

MidAtlanticCoins

<< <i>[Disclaimer for fc-- I am neither Larry nor Ira Goldberg, nor am I Mr. Hesselgesser. This thread is not intended to be a promotion of said collection, nor an endorsement. Bidding in auctions carries some inherent level of risk, which the bidder should be aware of before participating. Void where prohibited. All rights reserved.

IRS Circular 230 Notice:
To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.

Confidentiality Notice:
This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. It is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged or confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete all copies of the message.]
>>




I think that you covered that one well....

saintguru

There are THREE coins of notability.

1921 MS65
1920-S MS64
1931 MS66

The rest are not notable at all...some even less than notable, ie. 1908-S MS62! The 1921 could bring as much as $800-$850K.
Now are you sure this set is for sale?

partagas

<< [Disclaimer for fc-- I am neither Larry nor Ira Goldberg, nor am I Mr. Hesselgesser. This thread is not intended to be a promotion of said collection, nor an endorsement. Bidding in auctions carries some inherent level of risk, which the bidder should be aware of before participating. Void where prohibited. All rights reserved.] >>

Ahaa! a crack in the disclaimer. You could perhaps be

A. a relative or hier of said Hesselgesser
B. a pool or cabana boy for said Hesselgesser
C. an obsessed stalker of said Hesselgesser

I am sure I have left out many other possibilities out. So FC is gonna get you on a technicality.

Bajajim

Like the disclaimer

MrBeast

I picked up a 1910-S Saint attributed to Hesselgesser a couple of months ago. In my humble opinion it was quite a nice coin.

Bajajim

Mr. Beast - I love the Trilogy of Terror photo.

fc

heh, even i had to crack a smile at that disclaimer!
nicely played. ;-)

i find it interesting that a saint collector only finds 3 of his coins
interesting out of how many?

goes to show the box of 20 may be on the high side eh?

saintguru

I'm not even sure that the 3 big coins are actually his.

Think about it...he has an average set at best, but there are 3 glaringly big coins. Sometimes a dealer will team up some rarities to sell with a set to make it appear better.

I wouldn't own 95% of what he has unless I was a budget collector...and that IS a relative term since they are not cheap.

I never heard his name ONCE buying coins, and the upper end Saint game is a pretty tight crowd.

Gr. Hassenpfeffer did a great job with his Early Dollars!

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I wouldn't own 95% of what he has unless I was a budget collector >>



Ouch.

saintguru

<< <i>

<< <i>I wouldn't own 95% of what he has unless I was a budget collector >>



Ouch. >>



No...not really.

Again, you know collecting Saints is not cheap...but a "quality" collection does not comprise of 50 coins in MS63/64 with POPs in the hundreds or thousands. A "quality" collection means foregoing quantity for grade. Early in my collecting days I had about 40 dates. I was advised by Steve Duckor to "SELL THEM ALL and buy 10 good dates in MS65!!" He was so right. This was the same advice that David Akers had given him in the early 80's and something I have passed on to many new collectors. It's the MANTRA. Own a 1913 in MS63 or 64 and you have a 'commodity' even though it's a desirable date. Own one in MS65 and you now have a major rarity. Big difference if you try to sell it eventually.

I know the Doctor H. has a magnificent set of Early Dollars. But Saints? They are nothing of note in the Saint community, but for the aforementioned coins.

roadrunner

I tried that top quality logic in the 70's and 80's and found essentially no seated quarters to purchase. The chance of assemblying a set was a pipe dream.....at least for my wallet. I just chose too tough a set that was ridiculously underrated in the 70's, 80's and 90's. It's one thing to have a few pieces that show up. In the case of the gem seated quarters, you were lucky if one quality piece showed up in 20 years. In hindsight the set was semi-achievable (settling with circs or just lesser uncs on about a dozen dates) if you had bought every key coin hitting the market, including every good one out of Eliasberg, Norweb, and James Stack. Only one person could have done this. Curiously, a number of dates have just one no brainer gem and then 64's and 63's under it. There are a few rarer dates with 2 or maybe 3 gems available.
After you get past the first 50% of the tougher dates in gem, it's all downhill from there finding the last 40 or so peices.

roadrunner

saintguru

I know not of these coin which you speak. I speak of Saints.

roadrunner

Saints = saved

Seated = used and abused for half the 19th century.

big diff

roadrunner

Bajajim

Looks like the Pre-Long Beach Goldberg Sale...I would like to see what the 1921 brings.

saintguru

probably around $800K.

It's a nice coin. The second best of 3 MS65's.

Bajajim

Saint -

I appreciate the advise that you have passed down relating to obtaining a "quality" collection. I myself have collected a "few" saints in ms 64-65 in the high population range just because I liked the design so much and opportunity had presented itself. It does seem to make sense that in the future I should focus not on quantity but a "good date" coin or two.

Jim

Torrero

I agree with others that something isn't right about this collection and I have a hunch some of the coins are borrowed as a marketing thing. Who has a 1915-s in 64 alongside a 1921 ms65? I know the 1921 was offered around not long ago.

Jay

saintguru

Yep....

I think Spectrum had a hand in it. The set is just average without the few standouts.

Bajajim

It did seem interesting that those key coins referenced by Saint (the 1921, 1920-s or 1931) were set apart from the rest of the batch.

Shamika

<< <i>...but a "quality" collection does not comprise of 50 coins in MS63/64 with POPs in the hundreds or thousands. >>

Double ouch!!!

tradedollarnut

Don't all Saints have pops in the hundreds or thousands?

Fletcher

<< <i>Early in my collecting days I had about 40 dates. I was advised by Steve Duckor to "SELL THEM ALL and buy 10 good dates in MS65!!" He was so right. This was the same advice that David Akers had given him in the early 80's and something I have passed on to many new collectors. It's the MANTRA. >>



Love it

saintguru

<< <i>Don't all Saints have pops in the hundreds or thousands? >>



Go bite an electric cable, Monkeyface.


Bajajim...The advice that SD gave me, that D.Akers gave him was the best thing I have ever done with coins. If you collect for fun and only fun then it may be irrelevant. But if you want a SERIOUS stake in high quality, rare coins this is the way to go.

tradedollarnut

<< Don't all Saints have pops in the hundreds or thousands? >>



Go bite an electric cable, Monkeyface.

My mistake. I meant to write Don't all Saints have pops in the hundreds of thousands?

Bajajim

Saint

I started out collecting for fun...but now in addition to that enjoyment I would like to feel like I am collecting intelligently so that my kids (or my wife and I) have something of value down the road.

Thanks again, your opinion is valued.

Jim

saintguru

<< <i>Saint

I started out collecting for fun...but now in addition to that enjoyment I would like to feel like I am collecting intelligently so that my kids (or my wife and I) have something of value down the road.

Thanks again, your opinion is valued.

Jim >>



I think that we should all love our coins, have fun and be fiscally aware as well. I must say that I love my coins first and foremost. I thoroughly enjoy seeing them, I know everyone like a picture in my mind and they are all spectacular. I worked HARD to get the finest coins I could...and traded coins of the same grade many times to get the best for the grade. A TRRUE PQ coin ALWAYS gets it's due in the end-game! I pay up for the best.

That said, I would have to say that set completion, espcially in a COSTLY series like Saints or Bust Dollars, can have pitfalls. One is having 80% of the coins being Saint "commodities". If there are 300 or 3000 coins in a grade, the appreciation percentage is not going to be nearly as high as the semi-rarities and rarities...those with POPs of less than 20 in a grade or higher. Now I know this is an "elite" position to some of the proletariat , but it's true with any caliber coins. The better the dates and grades, the more sound the safety net.

Good luck!

Bajajim

<< <i>I think that we should all love our coins, have fun and be fiscally aware as well. I must say that I love my coins first and foremost. I thoroughly enjoy seeing them, I know everyone like a picture in my mind and they are all spectacular. I worked HARD to get the finest coins I could...and traded coins of the same grade many times to get the best for the grade. A TRRUE PQ coin ALWAYS gets it's due in the end-game! I pay up for the best.

That said, I would have to say that set completion, espcially in a COSTLY series like Saints or Bust Dollars, can have pitfalls. One is having 80% of the coins being Saint "commodities". If there are 300 or 3000 coins in a grade, the appreciation percentage is not going to be nearly as high as the semi-rarities and rarities...those with POPs of less than 20 in a grade or higher. Now I know this is an "elite" position to some of the proletariat , but it's true with any caliber coins. The better the dates and grades, the more sound the safety net.

Good luck! >>



Well said. Thanks again.

jpkinla

I agree with the guru on this one. The Saint crowd is pretty small but the dollars are big. I miss my Saints but chose to be fiscally conservative and now only own generics. My 1924 Saints look the same as my 1921 Saint with a digit difference although the valuation is six digits different.

Coin should fetch about $700-$800k depending on the quality and that is based on what the Morse coin brought in MS65. The MS66 was the deal of the Morse sale in my view and I was excited to be in that room when it went off.

saintguru

I do believe that this 1921 is nicer than the Morse coin.

Photoguy

Being someone who does know this collection. They are all his coins none are "fillers".

Disclaimer: I do work for the Goldbergs :-)