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Details about ANA and NGC agreement
Mark
Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
Though it's been posted before that NGC has signed with the ANA to once more be their "official grader," I don't recall any details being posted. Because I am on the ANA's email publicity list (lucky me) here are a few details:
1) Under the terms of the contract CCG (NGC's parent group) will provide the ANA $350,000 per year through 2012, with the option to renew the contract at that time for another five years.
2) NGC will be a Title Sponsor of the ANA's World's Fair of Money at the $10,000 level and of the National Money Show at the $7,500 level for the duration of the contract.
3) CCG will provide instructors in grading and conservation for a number of ANA educational programs, including Summer Seminar and ANA conventions.
The bottom line seems to be that the ANA will sell its name for around $367,500 per year. I guess the ANA needs the money, but I surely wish it were otherwise so that the ANA could think about taking a proactive stance toward third-world TPGs.
1) Under the terms of the contract CCG (NGC's parent group) will provide the ANA $350,000 per year through 2012, with the option to renew the contract at that time for another five years.
2) NGC will be a Title Sponsor of the ANA's World's Fair of Money at the $10,000 level and of the National Money Show at the $7,500 level for the duration of the contract.
3) CCG will provide instructors in grading and conservation for a number of ANA educational programs, including Summer Seminar and ANA conventions.
The bottom line seems to be that the ANA will sell its name for around $367,500 per year. I guess the ANA needs the money, but I surely wish it were otherwise so that the ANA could think about taking a proactive stance toward third-world TPGs.
Mark
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This is a nice provision.
on your other point, i really hope the ANA cleans up those scumbag third world grading services that are polluting our hobby.
<< <i>The bottom line seems to be that the ANA will sell its name for around $367,500 per year. I guess the ANA needs the money, but I surely wish it were otherwise so that the ANA could think about taking a proactive stance toward third-world TPGs. >>
I agree. I feel that the general problems with grading and with third world graders are too important in this field for the ANA to just sell their seal of approval to the highest bidder. I support the ANA approving a group of grading companies that fit rigorous standards to be top tier TPGs.
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Next, he asks her the same question, but for $20 instead of $100,000. She looks at him, offended, and says, "what do you think I AM, anyway?"
"We've already established what you are," he replied. "Now we're just haggling over price."
Apparently after all the haggling, the ANA's price is $350,000 a year.
I am aware that the ANA has sold off its name to a TPG for about a decade now. As I recall, it went first to PCGS, then to NGC, and now back to NGC again.
What would be interesting to learn, and what I don't know, is how much per year has the ANA gotten from its sale. In other words, has the amount per year the ANA collected from its endorsement risen, fallen, or remained the same? That data should convey some information about the worth of the ANA's endorsement, which would be interesting.
<< <i>Why is the ANA endorsing NGC as "official grading service" when NGC does not follow ANA grading standards, but rather their own standards, and they publish an NGC grading book that COMPETES with the ANA grading book. That makes as much sense as Fox News being the "official network" of Al Franken... >>
I can think of 350,000 reasons each year.
<< <i>Why is the ANA endorsing NGC as "official grading service" when NGC does not follow ANA grading standards, but rather their own standards, and they publish an NGC grading book that COMPETES with the ANA grading book. That makes as much sense as Fox News being the "official network" of Al Franken... >>
Why? I think that's pretty obvious...
homerunhall
Collector
Tuesday March 23, 2004 2:52 PM
"For the past 5 years or so, PCGS has been the "official grading service" of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG.) This month the png accepted bids for a three year exclusive contract to be their "official grading service." PCGS bid $504,000 for the three year period in the form of $60,000 a year in cash and the remaining amount in free grading slots for png members. NGC bid $544,000 for the three year period in the form of $65,000 a year cash the first year and small increases in that cash amount for the second and third year along with free grading slots for png members. The bids were supposedly "sealed."
So NGC outbid PCGS for the right to claim they are the "official grading service" of the png. NGC is also the "official grading service" of the ANA. That too is a paid endorsement, and NGC outbid PCGS on than endorsement too. Apparently NGC values these paid endorsements more than we do. Perhaps they feel they help the TV sales of NGC modern 70 coins.
The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned.
David Hall
Those are data about the PNG's sale of its name. By chance do you have similar data about the ANA's endorsment (=sale of its name
<< <i>Doogy:
Those are data about the PNG's sale of its name. By chance do you have similar data about the ANA's endorsment (=sale of its name
sorry, i misread it. i don't think i've read details on the ANA transaction
Drat! I was hoping you had somehow (and for some bizzare reason
<< <i>The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned. >>
Hall's comments were just sour grapes. He would have happily been the one who bought the endorsement; he just got outbid, and then whined about it.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
What are some suggestions for doing this that ANA might employ to do so?
We already try to aim buyers to 3 or 4 reputable grading outfits. What can else can WE do?
I'm not in the business, per se, but I do care about making sure quality and accuracy are not compromised.
Thanks much...
<< <i>What would have happened if someone like NTC had offered 1.5 mill...... >>
Then NTC would be the Official Grading Service of the ANA.
Did the ANA ever return the $3000 check from ACG?
NGC is the official grading service of the ANA. If you are an active member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you may submit coins directly to NGC by applying for an ANA Submission Account.
I've used this service a couple times.
<< <i>NGC should be required, as the official grading service of the ANA, to adhere to the ANA grading guidlines. >>
I'd take that a step further -- I think the ANA should examine the various grading services, and the ones that do adhere to the ANA guidelines should be granted some sort of "ANA certified" status. This would go a long way to help the collector separate the first world from third world slabbers.
Of course, since it actually helps collectors and doesn't involve the ANA getting a check, I doubt they'd ever do it.
<< <i>
<< <i>NGC should be required, as the official grading service of the ANA, to adhere to the ANA grading guidlines. >>
I'd take that a step further -- I think the ANA should examine the various grading services, and the ones that do adhere to the ANA guidelines should be granted some sort of "ANA certified" status. This would go a long way to help the collector separate the first world from third world slabbers.
Of course, since it actually helps collectors and doesn't involve the ANA getting a check, I doubt they'd ever do it. >>
i TOTALLY agree with you, but just imagine the stream of lawsuits that would come pouring in from the scumbag TPGs and their low-life lawyers if they didn't get the coveted 'ANA certified' status. Granted, most of these lawsuits would get tossed out, but i don't think the ANA has the balls to do it.
<< <i>This is also a benefit of the ANA/NGC Team:
NGC is the official grading service of the ANA. If you are an active member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you may submit coins directly to NGC by applying for an ANA Submission Account.
I've used this service a couple times. >>
Anybody can submit coins to NGC. You don't need to be a member.-
http://www.ngccoin.com/ebay_ngcvalue.cfm
<< <i>
<< <i>The bottom line seems to be that the ANA will sell its name for around $367,500 per year. I guess the ANA needs the money, but I surely wish it were otherwise so that the ANA could think about taking a proactive stance toward third-world TPGs. >>
I agree. I feel that the general problems with grading and with third world graders are too important in this field for the ANA to just sell their seal of approval to the highest bidder. I support the ANA approving a group of grading companies that fit rigorous standards to be top tier TPGs. >>
Give me a break, do you REALLY think that NGC is a 3rd world grader? Better drink some more Kool-aid.
Also, WHY should the ANA take a proactive stance toward 3rd world TPG's? They have enough trouble with booting scummy dealers out of their organization. Read the Charter of the ANA to see what they are actually SUPPOSED to do...
The Association's mission is to "advance and promote the study of coins, paper money, tokens, medals and related numismatic items as a means of recording world history, art, economic development and social changes, and to promote greater popular interest in the field of numismatics."
I'm an ANA life member, have been for 15+ years, and basically I look at it as a cross between an educational and social organization. If you are looking at them for help on the BUSINESS side of the hobby of numismatics I've got some prime real estate in downtown Baghdad I'd like to sell you.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The bottom line seems to be that the ANA will sell its name for around $367,500 per year. I guess the ANA needs the money, but I surely wish it were otherwise so that the ANA could think about taking a proactive stance toward third-world TPGs. >>
I agree. I feel that the general problems with grading and with third world graders are too important in this field for the ANA to just sell their seal of approval to the highest bidder. I support the ANA approving a group of grading companies that fit rigorous standards to be top tier TPGs. >>
Give me a break, do you REALLY think that NGC is a 3rd world grader? Better drink some more Kool-aid.
Also, WHY should the ANA take a proactive stance toward 3rd world TPG's? They have enough trouble with booting scummy dealers out of their organization. Read the Charter of the ANA to see what they are actually SUPPOSED to do...
The Association's mission is to "advance and promote the study of coins, paper money, tokens, medals and related numismatic items as a means of recording world history, art, economic development and social changes, and to promote greater popular interest in the field of numismatics."
I'm an ANA life member, have been for 15+ years, and basically I look at it as a cross between an educational and social organization. If you are looking at them for help on the BUSINESS side of the hobby of numismatics I've got some prime real estate in downtown Baghdad I'd like to sell you. >>
ohhhhhh! Downtown Baghdad!? you gotta' nice 3 bedroom condo overlooking a mural of Saddam you wanna' sell me? I prefer it to be in one piece, but bombed out is fine too if the price is right
I think you misunderstood what I meant to say, which I believe is partially my fault due what I wrote. In no way do I believe NGC is a 3rd-world TPG. Clearly PCGS and NGC are the two premier TPG companies. What I meant to say is that I believe it is too bad that the ANA takes money from any grading company because I believe that makes it more difficult for the ANA to address issues with 3-world TPG companies.
Now, that said, perhaps you were not collecting and hence unaware of when the ANA took a very pro-active stance toward counterfeits and was one of the driving forces behind the Hobby Protection Act. And also perhaps you are equally unaware of the fact that ANACS was basically the first TPG company, though they did not initially encapsulate the coins they graded. The ANA at those times was quite pro-active in those issues, which are on the business side of the hobby, largely because it's partially the ANA's goal (to quote your post) "to promote greater popular interest in the field of numismatics," which they did by helping to reduce counterfeits and trying to standardize grading. It would be my wish that the ANA could be equally pro-active today about 3-world TPG companmies because I believe they adversely affect "popular interest in the field of numismatics." Apparently that's not your wish because you are busy trying to sell some prime real estate.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is also a benefit of the ANA/NGC Team:
NGC is the official grading service of the ANA. If you are an active member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you may submit coins directly to NGC by applying for an ANA Submission Account.
I've used this service a couple times. >>
Anybody can submit coins to NGC. You don't need to be a member.-
http://www.ngccoin.com/ebay_ngcvalue.cfm >>
Still need to be a member of NGC or ANA to submit coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This is also a benefit of the ANA/NGC Team:
NGC is the official grading service of the ANA. If you are an active member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you may submit coins directly to NGC by applying for an ANA Submission Account.
I've used this service a couple times. >>
Anybody can submit coins to NGC. You don't need to be a member.-
http://www.ngccoin.com/ebay_ngcvalue.cfm >>
Still need to be a member of NGC or ANA to submit coins. >>
Nope, you can submit coins directly to NGC by filling out the submission online with that link. No paid account is required:
<< <i>Note: You must fill the entire order out at once and you will not be able to go back and edit/complete partially filled out orders without paying for a paid membership. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>http://www.ngccoin.com/ebay_ngcvalue.cfm >>
Still need to be a member of NGC or ANA to submit coins. >>
I think you technically need to be an eBay member to use that link, but as most everyone is, and if you're not it's free, it pretty much means that anybody can submit to NGC.
Frankly, I'm not sure why a grading service would limit its submissions in the first place. It's an interesting business model to make it harder for your customers to use your services.
<< <i>on your other point, i really hope the ANA cleans up those scumbag third world grading services that are polluting our hobby. >>
All they need to do is issue and publicize a list of "acceptable" and "not acceptable" TPGs, word will get out.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>The top of the form on eBay ask for an Account # starting with EB. This is your membership with NGC is it not? >>
You can put any number there. It is not a required field. You will still receive 10% off the grading fees with the online form. Why would you fill out an eBay submission form if you already have a paid NGC account?
This was posted ATS by a NGC administrator about the eBay form
<< <i>Question on Ebay 10% off?
Is this in addition to the discount I get from online submission forms through NGC?
No...the discounts cannot be combined. You may submit using either the online Collectors Society submission form for paid members or through the online Ebay form to receive a 10% discount on grading.
However a paid membership through the Collectors Society offers more benefits than the Ebay method of submitting.
In addition to the 10% discount on grading fees, paid members of the Collectors Society receive a certificate for free grading upon joining and have access to submission tracking and cert number lookup which now includes Numismedia pricing. >>
http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=questions&Number=810235
<< <i>SkyMan:
Now, that said, perhaps you were not collecting and hence unaware of when the ANA took a very pro-active stance toward counterfeits and was one of the driving forces behind the Hobby Protection Act. And also perhaps you are equally unaware of the fact that ANACS was basically the first TPG company, though they did not initially encapsulate the coins they graded. The ANA at those times was quite pro-active in those issues, which are on the business side of the hobby, largely because it's partially the ANA's goal (to quote your post) "to promote greater popular interest in the field of numismatics," which they did by helping to reduce counterfeits and trying to standardize grading. It would be my wish that the ANA could be equally pro-active today about 3-world TPG companmies because I believe they adversely affect "popular interest in the field of numismatics." Apparently that's not your wish because you are busy trying to sell some prime real estate.
Mark,
I was aware of all of the above except for the fact that the ANA was one of the driving forces behind the Hobby Protection Act.
From what I remember (although I may be wrong) the ANA's main thrust was to deal with the issue of counterfeits. Their grading started more as an "authentication" service and then developed from there basically because of market demand. It is a WHOLE lot easier to say that a coin is counterfeit than to say that company X's slab is misgrading a MS62 coin as an MS68 coin, because many of the slab companies in the fine print of their contract will state that they use their own grading standards.
I would agree that the ANA could say that company X does not follow the ANA's guidelines for grading, but given the litigious nature of America that could open the ANA up to a bunch of lawsuits. Unfortunately grading is not black and white like counterfeit or not counterfeit.
U.S. Type Set