Opinions on Grade - 1802 Draped Bust 1C (1-000) & 1855 1C

skippy315

Hello all!

I just sent these in to PCGS, but thought it would be fun to see if my grades (as I am a novice) come close to what some of you pros think...granted, these are pics and you do not have the coins in hand, but give it a go...

Kevin

rhedden

I hope it is your photos that make the coins look slightly discolored, but I will say all three will be bagged for questionable color or cleaning, based upon my experience. Other than that, VF-35 details on the 1802, VF-35 on the 1855, and AU-53 on the 1896, if they slab.

DoubleEagle59

It's probably the light source, but the two large cents look like they have been cleaned long ago and have partially retoned.

skippy315

I pulled them out of old cardboard/staple holders - I would guess they have all been in them at least 40 years (or more)... The photos are not the best - I did them myself in my kitchen with a paper towel over the flash and cropped them down. I'm sure there is a better method, I will have to research it.

What happens if they are "bagged for questionable color or cleaning"?

rhedden

What happens if they are "bagged for questionable color or cleaning"?


PCGS keeps your money and sends the coins back in plastic flips that say "questionable color" or "cleaning" without grading them. If that happens, don't submit any more coins without posting pics on here first, as the board members will happily point out cleaned pieces and save you money. In addition, two of the coins you posted (1855, 1896) are of low enough value that most on here would have advised you not to submit them anyway. The exception is the 1802 1/000, which is scarce and is worth $200-$400 whether slabbed or not.

skippy315

Wow - that would not be good! So, if a coin is cleaned and/or colored, is it's value lost forever? Is there a way to "redeem" the coin?

I thought the 1855 might be a "knob on ear" variety? No?

Barndog

looks like 3 bodybagged coins to me. Sell them on ebay to redeem their value.

rhedden

Cleaned pieces are just worth a little less than original ones. Don't mess with them any further. The ones you have are not that bad looking. The 1855 does not have the fully developed knob on the ear (see below), although there are early strikes that only have a small knob.

1798CentCollector

I'd give the 1802 draped bust cent an EAC 20 plus for sharpness and a net grade of 12. Good sharpness on the coin, but reduced for cleaning and excessive nicks. The 1855 coin - a VF 20 sharpness. net grade 15. This coin appears to be cleaned and retoned also. Commercially the the 1802 is probably a VF 35 and the 1855 is a 30 coin. These probably won't slab at PCGS, but ANACS would holder these with details plus addthe variety designation. They would be more presentable raw, however.

1798CentCollector

<< <i>Wow - that would not be good! So, if a coin is cleaned and/or colored, is it's value lost forever? >>



The value is reduced. Net grading a coin will give you an approximate equivalent value to a coin that is not otherwise "damaged". In other words, when your 1802 with a sharpnes grade of say, 20 plus, is net graded to a F!2 for problems, you can expect that the coin would bring approximately the same price as an average coin with normal wear graded F12. Coins with problems are less desirable and net grading tends to factor that in.



<< <i>Is there a way to "redeem" the coin? >>



Some coins can be "improved". You need to be able to determine when it's appropriate and when to leave them alone. You also know what you are doing in this process and the value and rarity of a coin, will affect that decision. Encountering cleaned and retoned or recolored early copper coins is not all that unusual, and probably more accepted by copper collectors (less desirable than original surfaces, of course). IMO leave your coins alone.

skippy315

Thanks to everyone for the input - I will hope for the best, but in case they do not slab, I will list them on ebay raw with any comments that come back from PCGS.

Are there any books I can read that you recommend so I can avoid buying these in the future, or at least make an offer based on the knowledge that a coin has been cleaned/retoned?

Kevin

Shortgapbob

<< <i>Thanks to everyone for the input - I will hope for the best, but in case they do not slab, I will list them on ebay raw with any comments that come back from PCGS.

Are there any books I can read that you recommend so I can avoid buying these in the future, or at least make an offer based on the knowledge that a coin has been cleaned/retoned?

Kevin >>



I would buy the PCGS Grading and Counterfeit Detection Guide to start with. It has a wealth of useful information. The ANA Grading Standards Guide would likely be useful as well.