.

Fletcher

.

Julian

It is a centering dot and is impressed in the die and appears raised on the coin.

I guess that the engravers used it so that they would have an overall balanced design.

jmski52

Interesting.....thanks for the post.

slumlord98

It has been speculated that it was made by a compass for scribing lines to get the right arc for letters. These and leftover scribe lines are often seen on half dollars thru the 1820s.

MrHalfDime

The centering dot seen on your beautiful 1794 half dime was, as Julian states, used by the die sinker as a centering device when engraving the die. This was for a compass point when the die blank was first laid out. Remember that anything that is incuse on the die will be in relief on the struck coin. Once the center of the die blank was determined, circles could be scribed on the die steel, using a compass, for the dentils, stars, letters and other features. The 'dent' left by the compass point on the die results in a raised dot on the struck coins.

On many Capped Bust half dimes (and presumably other denominations of the period) one can actually see some of the circle guidelines on the periphery of the die for alignment of stars and dentils.

CaptHenway

The engraver would make a center dot and then use a compass to trace a light circle in the face of the die, and then use that circle to align his inscription. A larger circle could be used to align the edge denticles. When he was done, he would polish the die and that usually eliminated the alignment circles, though some large cent dies do show remnants of them.
TD

Cladiator

It is a centering dot. I believe that it was imparted onto the die by the engraver by a compass type device and used when laying out the letters of the legend. Personally I think they are very cool, a window in the production methods of these little beauties.

Cladiator

Ok now that's funny. Four of us all posted nearly identical answers in less than 60 seconds of each other.

Cladiator

This photo illustrates excellently the centering dot on your coins younger counterpart. Mr.HD, hope you don't mind me posting pics of your coins.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Ok now that's funny. Three of us all posted nearly identical answers in less than 60 seconds of each other. >>



If my wife hadn't asked for more staples for the inventory she is 2x2'ing for me, I'da beat ya!!!
LOL
TD

fc

very interesting post.
now i am going to be looking for little dots in the center of
every classic coin.

MrHalfDime

And to think that someone just posted that this forum was becoming dull. Make an interesting OP and things really liven up.

Cladiator

Mr.HD, here's a question for ya...

From what I've seen the centering dots on the early bust half dimes tend to be larger than all those I've seen on the capped bust half dimes. Is this an optical illustion or actual fact? Was there an advancement in coining tool technology between 1805 and 1829 that possibly led to a better centering compass with a finer point?

Fletcher

Thanks for the info guys ... just another reason why this place is so great

MrHalfDime

Cladiator:

In order to properly answer such a detailed question I would have to do some research and get back to you. You pose an interesting question, and I will see what I can find out.

Incidentally, that image you posted of the Reverse Die F (1829?) is an absolutely beautiful coin. Is/was that mine? Geez, that's nice. Why did I ever let it go?

Cladiator

<< <i>Cladiator:

In order to properly answer such a detailed question I would have to do some research and get back to you. You pose an interesting question, and I will see what I can find out.

Incidentally, that image you posted of the Reverse Die F (1829?) is an absolutely beautiful coin. Is/was that mine? Geez, that's nice. Why did I ever let it go? >>

Since I don't have any pre-1829 half dimes I'll leave it in your capable hands to measure the centering dots on those. I will try to get some measurements from the cappers though and I'll post my findings to this thread.

I hope you recognize that reverse die! It belongs to the second finest known 1829 LM12 (AU58) formerly of the Cladiator Collection, currently residing in the Mr.HD Collection.

MrHalfDime

Whew!! Thanks. I couldn't imagine letting a coin that nice get away.

Cladiator

It wasn't easy, but I have solice in knowing it went to a good home.

Fletcher

.

Cladiator

Ok so I took some measurements of a handfull of raw capped bust half dimes from my collection that I have here with me. All of the centering dots that I measured ranged from 0.17mm in diamter to 0.19mm in diameter.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>On a side note ... now that I finally found one that I like, I have to say that I think that 1794 Half Dimes are positively the best value for your numismatic dollar right now. Low mintage, relatively low survival rate, they have the magic first year of silver 1794 date, and they are WAY cheaper that a 1794 half or dollar. If I were doing this purely for investment purposes, I would buy up all of them that I could find. I think that they have been a relative sleeper in the early us coinage market and will eventually break out in price ... that's all >>



I'm not convinced that these will ever explode simply based on their diminutive size.

Cladiator

<< <i>

<< <i>On a side note ... now that I finally found one that I like, I have to say that I think that 1794 Half Dimes are positively the best value for your numismatic dollar right now. Low mintage, relatively low survival rate, they have the magic first year of silver 1794 date, and they are WAY cheaper that a 1794 half or dollar. If I were doing this purely for investment purposes, I would buy up all of them that I could find. I think that they have been a relative sleeper in the early us coinage market and will eventually break out in price ... that's all >>



I'm not convinced that these will ever explode simply based on their diminutive size. >>

And thank God for that

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>On a side note ... now that I finally found one that I like, I have to say that I think that 1794 Half Dimes are positively the best value for your numismatic dollar right now. Low mintage, relatively low survival rate, they have the magic first year of silver 1794 date, and they are WAY cheaper that a 1794 half or dollar. If I were doing this purely for investment purposes, I would buy up all of them that I could find. I think that they have been a relative sleeper in the early us coinage market and will eventually break out in price ... that's all >>



I'm not convinced that these will ever explode simply based on their diminutive size. >>



I agree. It's one of the pillars of numismatic valuations. Size counts.

Fletcher

<< <i>I'm not convinced that these will ever explode simply based on their diminutive size. >>



Soooo ... what you are saying is that size does matter?

mozin

That is a very nice half dime.

Sometimes the centering dot is very large on the Capped Bust Half Dollars. Check out this 1808. Remember the size of that little half dime compared to this half dollar, just to keep the dot size in perspective.

mgoodm3

Small one on the neck

jobiwan115

NICE Bustie, Mark!

IGWT

Here's a hub trial (J-A1867-9) of J-561 that nicely shows both the point left by the compass and the circle that was scribed to position UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (you'll also see perpendicular layout lines that were scribed on the trial). The hub trial resembles the die that would be produced with the hub; and, in fact, you can see the compass point in positive relief on J-561. There's a bit of an optical illusion with the photo. The device and lettering is incuse as well as reversed; but, for some reason, it looks to be in positive relief in the picture.

Cam40

I have an 1836 Half Cent with a centering dot on the reverse.