Help....PSA driving me CRAZY!!!!

Munnyman

Although new to the boards, I've been a long time collector and huge PSA supporter. I have recently read all the messages about the tough graders and low grades everyone has been receiving. Well I too am a victim.

I recently dropped of 2 cards at Sportfest to be crossed over from BGS (Beckett, not some new grader) to PSA to start another registry. Both cards were graded 9.5 Gem Mints. The first had sub grades of 9.5 Centering, 9.5 Corners, 10 Edges, 9 Surface. The second card had sub grades of 10 Centering, 10 Corners, 10 Edges, and 8.5 Surface. With such high subgrades and being Gem mint cards, I left them in their BGS slabs. Assuming I was a lock for 10s. Well I received them in the mail today and you'll never believe my luck.....Yep, you guessed it. The PSA catch all phrase. "Not holder, evidence of trimming." You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!

I'm ready to pull the plug on PSA. I mean really, who are these graders????? Not to mention I'm out $40.00 bucks for grading fees. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

Thanks for letting me rant.

CDsNuts

Your cards were sheet cut as the surface grades would imply. Do research before you invest in something.

Lee

handyman

PSA was right, BGS was wrong

schr1st

That would be my guess as well, depending on the cards. BGS regularly grades sheet-cut cards, and until recently was worse at detecting trimmed and altered cards (not that BGS has gotten better at it, but PSA has gotten worse at it).



<< <i>Your cards were sheet cut as the surface grades would imply. Do research befoer you invest in something.

Lee >>

chaz43

Nobody's right and nobody's wrong. BGS grades sheet cut cards and PSA grades hand cut cards. chaz

Boopotts

I heard that BGS grades sheet cuts. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, I've got a great joke about a gorilla in a bar. It's a little salty, but PM me if you want to read it.

handyman

yeah chaz. Its been a while on your priceless coments.

Boopotts

The ChazDAQ is also bullish on 1989 UD. Load up before the rest of the free world catches on.

GlynRParson

The fact that that idiot cant tell the difference between sheet cut cards and cards that were only available if hand cut is laughable. He is easily the most bullheaded unintelligent poster on the boards. Oh but he knows so much about cards that he comes on here bragging about losing something like 100k on them. that says all you need to know about him.

chaz43

<< <i>I heard that BGS grades sheet cuts. Can anyone confirm that?

Also, I've got a great joke about a gorilla in a bar. It's a little salty, but PM me if you want to read it. >>






I've heard that PSA grades hand cuts? Can anyone confirm that?


chaz

chaz43

<< <i>yeah chaz. Its been a while on your priceless coments. >>




You missed me??? chaz

chaz43

<< <i>The ChazDAQ is also bullish on 1989 UD. Load up before the rest of the free world catches on. >>





That's right baby - Grif ' all the way!!! chaz

CDsNuts

Thanks for keeping it real chaz. If more people around here kept it real, the world would be a better place. I, for one, am a proponent of keeping it real.

mikeschmidt

shouldn't be ranting...you're a victim of Beckett's grading of sheet cut cards.

Lesson learned. You learned it for a much lower price than some of us.

digicat

Send the cards back to BGS for grading, then flip them once you get them back. Use the money you get to buy some already graded PSA 10s.



How much do PSA 10s cost for these cards vs BGS 9.5s?

chaz43

<< <i>The fact that that idiot cant tell the difference between sheet cut cards and cards that were only available if hand cut is laughable. He is easily the most bullheaded unintelligent poster on the boards. Oh but he knows so much about cards that he comes on here bragging about losing something like 100k on them. that says all you need to know about him. >>




I must say Parson you are getting a tiny eensy wiinnsy little bit better. You still have a long long way to go but I do see improvement over your last posts on this subject. Congratulations!!! chaz

chaz43

<< <i>Thanks for keeping it real chaz. If more people around here kept it real, the world would be a better place. I, for one, am a proponent of keeping it real. >>



Absolutely!!!! chaz

pjray55

<< <i>The second card had sub grades of 10 Centering, 10 Corners, 10 Edges, and 8.5 Surface. With such high subgrades and being Gem mint cards, I left them in their BGS slabs. Assuming I was a lock for 10s. >>




I don't believe it is possible to have a subgrade of 8.5 for a BGS graded card and still get a 9.5 GEM MINT. I also from experience have found that BGS will not drop 3 PRISTINE 10 sub grades on cards that do not grade out at 10 Pristine.

Do you have a scan of the second card in it's original BGS holder?

storm888

To the OP's credit, he has not (yet) reacted badly to
folks offering the truth regarding his bogus complaint.

colebear

<< <i>

<< <i>The second card had sub grades of 10 Centering, 10 Corners, 10 Edges, and 8.5 Surface. With such high subgrades and being Gem mint cards, I left them in their BGS slabs. Assuming I was a lock for 10s. >>




I don't believe it is possible to have a subgrade of 8.5 for a BGS graded card and still get a 9.5 GEM MINT. I also from experience have found that BGS will not drop 3 PRISTINE 10 sub grades on cards that do not grade out at 10 Pristine.

Do you have a scan of the second card in it's original BGS holder? >>



I have a Puckett Topps rookie that has three 10 subgrades and a 9 for surface and it came out a BGS 9.5

I also thought that if you have an 8.5 sub, you can not have a BGS 9.5

Brian48

I think you should have cracked them out before re-submitting. I think you would have had better luck.

SDavid

OP - what were the cards? Lower surface subs don't always indicate the card is sheet cut; if it's a shiny new card, then it might just have a surface scratch or a print/refractor line.

An older card with 3 10's for cent/edges/corners would probably be sheet cut, though, regardless of the surface grade.

jmbkb4

<< <i>I think you should have cracked them out before re-submitting. I think you would have had better luck. >>





IF the grade does not fit.....

rbdjr1

Here's three examples of Beckett high end grading of O-Pee-Chee's.

Based on my experience in purchasing a ton of 70's & 80's OPC's in PSA 9's and 10's, I would say these (3) of my OPC Beckett's are sheet cut! These 3 Beckett's are far nicer than any "OPC Factory Cuts". IMO, only "sheet cut examples" would produce cards this nice!

I'm quite sure PSA would not grade them!

rd

Munnyman

Hey Parson, very nice post. You are a true asset to this world with your classy comments. Usually I would take offense to someone referring to me as an "idiot," but cutting you down is of no use to anyone. I mean besides I'm sure you're just one of those "guys" I see at card shows who are about 35 pounds overweight and still squeezing into a football jersey that was purchased in the mid 80's. You know, the type who didn't have time to shower before the show, so he could be first in line for the VIP free autographs, but luckily still has a faded out cap (usually a free giveaway from a previous card show) to cover his greasy, oily combover. The same guy who rips open his wax boxes (alone), while sitting Indian style, on the outskirts of card shows and then shows every dealer his pulls. You know the type, they have enough working against them and don't need me to point it out.

Well like I said I don't gain anything by cutting you down so thank you for your inciteful comments.

As for the others who offered legitimate comments, I thank you. I thought I was a savvy collector, but never used or purchased anything graded by BGS in the past and was unaware of cut sheet cards. You're right I did only lose $40.00 which is a relatively cheap lesson. I was just very angry when I wrote the first post.

jimq112

<< <i>Here's three examples of Beckett high end grading of O-Pee-Chee's.

Based on my experience in purchasing a ton of 70's & 80's OPC's in PSA 9's and 10's, I would say these (3) of my OPC Beckett's are sheet cut! These 3 Beckett's are far nicer than any "OPC Factory Cuts". IMO, only "sheet cut examples" would produce cards this nice!

I'm quite sure PSA would not grade them!

rd
>>



I think the 83 is a pack issued card. You can't duplicate the wire cut on the left side with a laser cutter. That would probably psa 9 or maybe 10.

I think my 1978 munson is also a sheet cut Beckett and I have no interest in trying to cross it over.

Leiascards

All the BGS graded cards I have ever seen the highest grade possible is .5 over the lowest score.

So 10,10,10, 8.5 would be a 9 at best, The 8.5 surface should have said the card will most likely not be a 10.

As others stated at least your lesson was fairly cheap. It could be because you submitted them in BGS slabs as well.

dizzle

hi yall new to the boards here. been reading awhile and found this thread interesting i guess my question is about the o pee chee cards residing in the bvg slabs above. now since the edges are so clean does this really mean there sheet cut. and psa will not grade them if they were to crossed? cause this example below is just as clean as those bvg's or am i missing something here anyhow good reading by the way not my pic of the ozzie

[]

jlbsquared

<< <i>Hey Parson, very nice post. You are a true asset to this world with your classy comments. Usually I would take offense to someone referring to me as an "idiot," but cutting you down is of no use to anyone. I mean besides I'm sure you're just one of those "guys" I see at card shows who are about 35 pounds overweight and still squeezing into a football jersey that was purchased in the mid 80's. You know, the type who didn't have time to shower before the show, so he could be first in line for the VIP free autographs, but luckily still has a faded out cap (usually a free giveaway from a previous card show) to cover his greasy, oily combover. The same guy who rips open his wax boxes (alone), while sitting Indian style, on the outskirts of card shows and then shows every dealer his pulls. You know the type, they have enough working against them and don't need me to point it out. >>




I think he may have been referring to chaz. Good tirade though.

dizzle

<< <i>hi yall new to the boards here. been reading awhile and found this thread interesting i guess my question is about the o pee chee cards residing in the bvg slabs above. now since the edges are so clean does this really mean there sheet cut. and psa will not grade them if they were to crossed? cause this example below is just as clean as those bvg's or am i missing something here anyhow good reading by the way not my pic of the ozzie

[] >>



hmm..nobody has any insight on this??

CDsNuts

Some OPC's come out of the pack with straight edges. I assume PSA looks for something else when deciding whether a card is sheet-cut or not. Or maybe they just guess, who knows....

Lee

dizzle

<< <i>Some OPC's come out of the pack with straight edges. I assume PSA looks for something else when deciding whether a card is sheet-cut or not. Or maybe they just guess, who knows....

Lee >>



so anybody who says a bvg graded o pee chee with smooth edges is always sheet cut is pretty much just a hater and likes to bash other companies, or is there really a valid reason for this? and im not buying the whole "if its got all 9.5's and a 9 for surface its sheetcut" theory either thats just ridiculous. im not trying to start a flaming war here or nothing but when trying to gain more knowledge about certain issues of cards there tends to be half arse answers and biased speculation. with no solid evidence. while ALL grading compainies make mistakes i just would like to know FACTS on why people think every bvg graded card thats nice is sheet cut or trimmed. forgive me if i'm missing something here.

dizzle.

rbdjr1

I'd luv to see someone post a scan ov a BVG 9 or a 9.5's in 1972 or 1973 O-Pee-Chee Baseball !!

rd

Here's some very nice (1972 & 1973 OPC) PSA examples:

CDsNuts

Most uncut sheets have surface wear from being rolled up, moved around, etc... Buy a cheap BGS card that appears sheet-cut (by the low surface subgrade) and then buy the same card in a PSA slab. Crack them out and you will be able to tell the difference. My guess is PSA uses the combination of smooth edges and surface wear to determine whether the card is sheet-cut or not.

TNTonPMS

Interesting thread . . .
After all these years , I hadn't even known there was a difference .

Now I have something else to look for /sort

But # 1 I wouldn't have re submitted
#2 If I had , I would have <Shiver> cracked it out of the BGS case first .

How would they grade the card anyway in the BGS holder , are they going to crack it out ?

Did they crack it out ?

Also if they do crack it out , and ruin it , are they responsible ?

<~~~ New Jack in the house

GlynRParson

"Hey Parson, very nice post. You are a true asset to this world with your classy comments. Usually I would take offense to someone referring to me as an "idiot," but cutting you down is of no use to anyone. I mean besides I'm sure you're just one of those "guys" I see at card shows who are about 35 pounds overweight and still squeezing into a football jersey that was purchased in the mid 80's. You know, the type who didn't have time to shower before the show, so he could be first in line for the VIP free autographs, but luckily still has a faded out cap (usually a free giveaway from a previous card show) to cover his greasy, oily combover. The same guy who rips open his wax boxes (alone), while sitting Indian style, on the outskirts of card shows and then shows every dealer his pulls. You know the type, they have enough working against them and don't need me to point it out.

Well like I said I don't gain anything by cutting you down so thank you for your inciteful comments.

As for the others who offered legitimate comments, I thank you. I thought I was a savvy collector, but never used or purchased anything graded by BGS in the past and was unaware of cut sheet cards. You're right I did only lose $40.00 which is a relatively cheap lesson. I was just very angry when I wrote the first post. "

Hey dumb arse I was talking about Chaz you F'in moron. Now I think you are a moron as well, and ive forgotten more about cards then you'll ever know.

cardbender

Here's a couple of examples of '73 OPC vending cards graded by PSA:





I'm not sure what years OPC issued vending cards but I know in Hockey they had them in '69, '72, and '73 as I've owned cards from all those years.

rbdjr1

<< <i>Here's a couple of examples of '73 OPC vending cards graded by PSA:





I'm not sure what years OPC issued vending cards but I know in Hockey they had them in '69, '72, and '73 as I've owned cards from all those years. >>



I've noticed there is a ton of OPC hockey cards (...with many hockey OPC's from years 1972 and 1973!) that have "topps like smooth edges", and not the "typical rough-cut OPC edges" that you normally see with '70's O-PeeChee baseball.

Were these many hundreds of 70's hockey OPC's cut differently than OPC baseball? Or were they just a mass of sheet cut material, that PSA graded as "factory cut"???

Compared to 70's OPC baseball, "smoothed-edged" 70's OPC hockey seems to be quite common.

Maybe some experienced "hockey buffs" would care to comment on this?

TIA

rd

rbdjr1

I've always wondered if hundreds upon hundreds of 1970's OPC hockey cards graded by PSA were not factory cut. It may be possible that so many were "sheet cut" that it has become "the norm" by PSA?

Well, just look at the difference between some OPC baseball and OPC hockey cards posted on this thread:

"Night and day" differences, IMO!

rd

chaz43

<< <i>"Hey Parson, very nice post. You are a true asset to this world with your classy comments. Usually I would take offense to someone referring to me as an "idiot," but cutting you down is of no use to anyone. I mean besides I'm sure you're just one of those "guys" I see at card shows who are about 35 pounds overweight and still squeezing into a football jersey that was purchased in the mid 80's. You know, the type who didn't have time to shower before the show, so he could be first in line for the VIP free autographs, but luckily still has a faded out cap (usually a free giveaway from a previous card show) to cover his greasy, oily combover. The same guy who rips open his wax boxes (alone), while sitting Indian style, on the outskirts of card shows and then shows every dealer his pulls. You know the type, they have enough working against them and don't need me to point it out.

Well like I said I don't gain anything by cutting you down so thank you for your inciteful comments.

As for the others who offered legitimate comments, I thank you. I thought I was a savvy collector, but never used or purchased anything graded by BGS in the past and was unaware of cut sheet cards. You're right I did only lose $40.00 which is a relatively cheap lesson. I was just very angry when I wrote the first post. "

Hey dumb arse I was talking about Chaz you F'in moron. Now I think you are a moron as well, and ive forgotten more about cards then you'll ever know. >>




Way to go Parson !! That'll set em' straight !!!! chaz

dizzle

<< <i>I'd luv to see someone post a scan ov a BVG 9 or a 9.5's in 1972 or 1973 O-Pee-Chee Baseball !!

rd

Here's some very nice (1972 & 1973 OPC) PSA examples:



>>



heres some smooth edge 1972 o pee chee in psa slabs (not my pics) just a quick search yeilded these with others i didn't post so are these sheet cut as well?

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Munnyman

Sorry Parson, thought it was targeted at me

zep33

Hey I still sit indian style when I crack boxes

jimq112

o-pee-chee's main card was hockey so they spent more time and had better quality control on the hockey cards. The baseball was more of a nuisance to them and they cut the cards in a hurry. The workers were paid more on quantity than quality, and they kept the costs down by using the same wire over and over until it actually tore the cards. Then it was replaced.

If you got some with the brand new wire, they would have nice sharp edges, but sometimes the centering was terrible including tilt cut, something about being the first cards after taking a long break while the wires were changed.

I read an article a few years ago by an opc employee, it was in a sports card magazine but I can't remember which one and I haven't been able to find it. I remember being disappointed that they really didn't care how the baseball cards turned out and that was the cards I wanted.

rbdjr1

<< <i>o-pee-chee's main card was hockey so they spent more time and had better quality control on the hockey cards. The baseball was more of a nuisance to them and they cut the cards in a hurry. The workers were paid more on quantity than quality, and they kept the costs down by using the same wire over and over until it actually tore the cards. Then it was replaced.

If you got some with the brand new wire, they would have nice sharp edges, but sometimes the centering was terrible including tilt cut, something about being the first cards after taking a long break while the wires were changed.

I read an article a few years ago by an opc employee, it was in a sports card magazine but I can't remember which one and I haven't been able to find it. I remember being disappointed that they really didn't care how the baseball cards turned out and that was the cards I wanted. >>



Thanks for that info!

rd

1960toppsguy

I think all cards are cut from sheets, I haven't picked any off trees

70sToppsGuy

Hey Munnyman,

Just who do you think you are ? First you bash PSA, and then other posters ? This is a clean forum to learn about the hobby. You chooch - go away.

Let me guess, you're one of "those guys" that go to card shows with some jersey you overpaid for just to show off. Some expensive jersey, probably like Mickey Mantle, or someone you have never actually seen play just to "be cool". You walk around with a PSA tote bag, just so others think you're a serious collector. You look at all the tables, but never actually buy anything because you think your stuff is better than anything at the show. Even though your proudest accomplishment is compiling some grabage set like UD Patch Collection. You make fun of the way people dress and thier grooming habits, but you yourself are probably just some big-nosed, bald-headed mope.

CDsNuts

You said chooch.

nam812

Jabroni.

Allen

Even if all hope for this post is lost by now, I will say that BGS will grade a full numerical grade over the lowest sub. (ie 8.5 sub can still be a 9.5, 6 sub can still be a 7)

SoonerCowboy

How did the above Jackson, Callison and Zimmer card get such high grades with those edges?