2008 Krause price changes

cladking

This is in the 1901 to 2000 version and applies primarily to the modern circulating issues. I just
didn't check many prices for the pre-WWII coins but did notice some. They tended to be in the 20%
area or so.

While there were substantial numbers of changes they mostly applied to the "usual suspects" and
were only in the 20 to 40% area. This applies to Denmark, Greece, New Zealand, East Germany, Aust-
ralia, Italy, Norway, Swiss, and Portugal. A few of these increases in these countries were very dram-
atic, but only a few. There were also some changes in Lebanon, and Senegal. Some of the tough
'50's era Lebanese coins were dramatically higher and the valuations for the Senegal 50 and 100 Franc
coins were about doubled.

The big changes were in Russia and to a lesser extent, Turkey. More of the Soviet coins are being rec-
ognized as scarce. This may continue since there were unlikely many mint sets made judging by their
availability in the US and Russia. The Soviet government actively tried to discourage collecting so it
seems improbable any of these would have large sales. Russians hated the Soviet coins when they were
new since they were modern and considered common and worthless. There won't be many truly common
coins among these.

There weren't as many glaring errors and it appears to be an improvement on a few of the recent issues.
It's still as hard to use as others.

cladking

I'm having some doubts about the validity of the Turkey listings. They're
not simple typographical errors but they look to be much too high. These
coins have not proven to be extremely elusive to me even though they are
tough enough I pick them up as available.

Krause didn't update the mint set prices for these either, so one or the ot-
her has to be wrong. If they're right it would imply there have been almost
no collectors of Turkish material anywhere and the Turks suddenly started
demanding the coins in large numbers.

Never underestimate Turks but you can't always take Krause at face value.

Aethelred

I bought the new 1901-2000 Krause about a week ago, but have yet to look at it. I am hoping there will be improvment from previous editions.

7Jaguars

You know, one huge issue is that these coins in the home market go for stupid money in some of these countries, which may include Turkey. I know this is a problem with Great Britain as prices and grading standards change from one locale to another.

cladking

<< <i>You know, one huge issue is that these coins in the home market go for stupid money in some of these countries, which may include Turkey. I know this is a problem with Great Britain as prices and grading standards change from one locale to another. >>



Krause barely tries to keep up with the home markets in moderns.

Irish decimals are selling for far higher prices than Krause lists. The cu/ni Japan 100Y sell far higher
in Japan. And then they'll list absurdly high prices for the most common date in a fairly tough series
in a relatively minor country.

It's always been hard to collect moderns and never moreso than the last couple decades. One gets
the impression that with all the talent Krause commands they don't have any modern experts.

The price changes are only so very important because they represent the value Americans think the
coins are worth and hence the price at which they actually will usually trade.

cladking

<< <i>You know, one huge issue is that these coins in the home market go for stupid money in some of these countries, which may include Turkey. I know this is a problem with Great Britain as prices and grading standards change from one locale to another. >>



You're right about the grading too.

American collectors should be aware that grading is far stricter almost everywhere
than it is here. In many cases what we consider a nice AU is just a VF at home. Unc
often means a choice coin and poor uncs grade XF.

No matter what source one uses for trading it is important to know the grading and
have at least a little understanding of the market. There are great coins to collect and
great bargains to be had but one can be in for some surprises if he doesn't keep up
at least a little.

7Jaguars

Ah yes, the question is how might they improve this with unbiased sources and pricing. I have often thought it difficult to price rare bits as they appear only infrequently and the auction prices often represent enthusiasm that might not be seen in a private sale. I sometimes wonder if the posted auction prices are real or if there is some funny financing that may go on from time to time.

So if you were to price a coin like the unique 1954 British penny, what would you give for a catalog price (the cataloguer that is)? If one were to just record "unique" people would not be happy.

Another dilemma is that if one were to use ebay prices, it would have to be with the realization that these prices are all over the map and perhaps are not a fair guide but rather just another factor in determining value.

I seem to recall that some years ago the Kenya circulation strikes of 1969 were hard to come by and may still be but are not represented by current pricing.

Lots more examples could be given.

SYRACUSIAN

While there were substantial numbers of changes they mostly applied to the "usual suspects" and
were only in the 20 to 40% area. This applies to Denmark, Greece, New Zealand, East Germany, Aust-
ralia, Italy, Norway, Swiss, and Portugal.


I have yet to see and buy this catalogue, but here's my opinion on some countries: Post WW2 Greek coins are now way overpriced in the catalogue. About two years ago, gems from the 1954 to 1964 period could sell very high, but the unexpected and sudden availability of them drove the prices down to much more realistic levels. For coins after 1964, Krause is confusing the dealers: I Keep seeing sets from the 60s and 70s that are (and have always been) readily available in gem unc, offered at US mail lists for much higher than they should.



Swiss business strikes were very underpriced in Krause, and specimens way overpriced. In time, we should see more corrections in this section, and in particular the ultra high grade business strikes ,especially when the eagerly awaited Registry by PCGS is finally ready and officially announced. The 1850 2 rp in BU is listed at $175, so why did an MS66RED sell for $766 a few days ago?


I'm having some doubts about the validity of the Turkey listings. They're
not simple typographical errors but they look to be much too high. These
coins have not proven to be extremely elusive to me even though they are
tough enough I pick them up as available.


What grade and denominations are we talking about? I've never collected them seriously, but their prices seemed very low compared to their Egyptian Ottoman cousins.Turkish Ottoman crowns' pricing in particular, looked as if it needed a serious correction, for even though they're not as rare as the Egyptians, they're certainly not readily available in gem, as previous editions of Krause might have suggested.




Most of all, I see the need of separate pricing for separate MS grades. New collectors have a different mentality and they are much more interested in the difference of the price between an AU58 an MS63 and an MS65 rather than the conventional F,VF,XF,UNC categories. Krause can no longer ignore the effect of TPGs on non US coins and should adjust its categories accordingly.

cladking

<< <i>Ah yes, the question is how might they improve this with unbiased sources and pricing. I have often thought it difficult to price rare bits as they appear only infrequently and the auction prices often represent enthusiasm that might not be seen in a private sale. I sometimes wonder if the posted auction prices are real or if there is some funny financing that may go on from time to time.

So if you were to price a coin like the unique 1954 British penny, what would you give for a catalog price (the cataloguer that is)? If one were to just record "unique" people would not be happy.

Another dilemma is that if one were to use ebay prices, it would have to be with the realization that these prices are all over the map and perhaps are not a fair guide but rather just another factor in determining value.

I seem to recall that some years ago the Kenya circulation strikes of 1969 were hard to come by and may still be but are not represented by current pricing.

Lots more examples could be given. >>




They could make some huge advances in the pricing of moderns just by
using the home market prices one grade lower. Sometimes there isn't
much of a domestic market but it's still ridiculous to list things like the
Kenyan '68 and '69 issues for a few dollars apiece when they aren't av-
ailable. Other coins like a nice choice 1968 100 Yen or a 1977 Irish 50P
will always bring $25 on the domestic markets but Krause treats them like
hoard coins.

I still think a lot of the problem is that the demand for the coins is extrem-
ely low. It takes only a few individuals looking toi drive some of these
straight up and then when a few "extra" come around the price tanks.

Unique and truly rare coins will always be a nightmare for catalogers but
the last sale price with a little fudge factor for the amount the series has
gained or lost since that time shouldn't be too misleading.

cladking

<< <i>


I'm having some doubts about the validity of the Turkey listings. They're
not simple typographical errors but they look to be much too high. These
coins have not proven to be extremely elusive to me even though they are
tough enough I pick them up as available.


What grade and denominations are we talking about? I've never collected them seriously, but their prices seemed very low compared to their Egyptian Ottoman cousins.Turkish Ottoman crowns' pricing in particular, looked as if it needed a serious correction, for even though they're not as rare as the Egyptians, they're certainly not readily available in gem, as previous editions of Krause might have suggested.

>>



I was talking about the 1, 2 1/2, and 5 Lira coins from the early '60's and, to a lesser
extent some of the earlier and later base metal coins. Some of these went from un-
der a dollar to $150.

I was mistaken about how readily available they've been since most of my examples
are from later dates.

You're no doubt right about the Egyptian coins too. Most of these are easily found but
uncirculated examples can be exceedingly tough. Even those which were increased years
ago could be in for another round. I've seen none offered at the new higher prices, so it
might not be high enough.