Which Lincoln is scarcer? 83 DDR or 84 DDO ??

dtkk49a

Hi
Which Lincoln is scarcer? 83 DDR or 84 DDO ??

Carlo

GrumpyEd

83 DDR is scarcer, especialy in higher grades 65 or above.

If you go by the outdated CPG estimates:

83 DDR is URS 11 (501-1000 coins exist)
maybe they est low, I think about 5000!

84 DDO is URS 15 (8000-16000 coins exist)
I think they were closer on this one.

URS is universal rarity scale:
0=0
1=1
2=2
3=3 to 4
4=5 to 8
5=9 to 16
6=17 to 32 1935 DDO
7= 33 to 64
8= 65 to 125 1917 DDO
9= 126 to 250
10= 251 to 500 1936 DDO
11= 501 to 1000 1983 DDR
12= 1001 to 2000
13= 2001 to 4000
14= 4001 to 8000
15= 8001 to 16000 1984 DDO and 1955 DDO
16= 16001 to 32000
17= 32001 to 65000
18= 65001 to 125000
19= 125001 to 250000
20= 250001 to 500000 1995 DDO is cheaper because of this!

TexasNationals

83 DDR is a tougher coin.

Steve

GrumpyEd,
So where would you place the 1909VDB Matte proof and the 1990 no S proof on that scale?
Steve

GrumpyEd

Well this says there were 3555 no S proof cents so if that's correct it is URS 13 2001 to 4000 but I thought there were not that many.

1990 no s

This says there were 1194 of the 1909 vdb matte proof cents so it would be URS 12 1001 to 2000. I bet some of these were ruined since being made in 1909! Some kid raids dads collection to get an expensive gumball LOL.

matte proof 0=1909vdb


URS is universal rarity scale:
0=0
1=1
2=2
3=3 to 4
4=5 to 8
5=9 to 16
6=17 to 32 1935 DDO
7= 33 to 64
8= 65 to 125 1917 DDO
9= 126 to 250
10= 251 to 500 1936 DDO
11= 501 to 1000 1983 DDR
12= 1001 to 2000 1909 VDB matte proof
13= 2001 to 4000 1990 no S proof
14= 4001 to 8000
15= 8001 to 16000 1984 DDO and 1955 DDO
16= 16001 to 32000
17= 32001 to 65000
18= 65001 to 125000
19= 125001 to 250000
20= 250001 to 500000 1995 DDO is cheaper because of this!

GrumpyEd

BTW

Here's a no S proof that doesn't look great on the bay, I wonder how anyone could spend $3800 on one with no guarantee from anyone with low imperfect FBs without seeing it and getting it themself, well it's in Vegas so maybe there's a gambler out there.

I've looked for these to cherry but not seen any but I knew a dealer that found one and still brags about it and how he demolished the set in 2 seconds to get it out LOL.


not great no S on the bay

Steve

Based on most knowledgeable collectors opinions, there are approximately 200 of each of these Lincoln proof cents in existence today. The 1909VDB had an official mintage of 420 until 1998 when Kevin Flynn convinced Red Book to change the number. The actually released quantity was probably closer to 420 than 1,194. The 1990 no S had a 3,555 number supplied by the US Mint in 1990 as to the average number of coins minted per die (3,700) less the 145 they found in inventory and destroyed. Based on the number available on the market, it is estimated that about 200 exist. So, a URS 9 is appropriate for each of them IN MY OPINION.
Steve

seanq

In terms of absolute rarity I think they're pretty close, but as others have said the '83 DDR is much harder to find in high grade. The bugs with the new copper-coated zinc planchets were still being worked out in 1983, so many examples of the DDR are poorly struck, or corroded, or on planchets with defective (bubbled) plating. The overall quality of all 1984 cents, including the DDO, is much higher.


Sean Reynolds

RBinTex

As for top pops, I'd rather have an '84 in 68 than an '83 in 67

RichieURich

<< <i>BTW

Here's a no S proof that doesn't look great on the bay, I wonder how anyone could spend $3800 on one with no guarantee from anyone with low imperfect FBs without seeing it and getting it themself, well it's in Vegas so maybe there's a gambler out there.

I've looked for these to cherry but not seen any but I knew a dealer that found one and still brags about it and how he demolished the set in 2 seconds to get it out LOL.


not great no S on the bay >>



That 1990 No S doesn't look proof to me, in my opinion. Could it be a business strike 1990 cent inserted into the 1990 Prestige set holder?

dtkk49a

Thanks for the info guys !

JRocco

<< <i>83 DDR is scarcer, especialy in higher grades 65 or above.

If you go by the outdated CPG estimates:

83 DDR is URS 11 (501-1000 coins exist)
maybe they est low, I think about 5000!

84 DDO is URS 15 (8000-16000 coins exist)
I think they were closer on this one.

URS is universal rarity scale:
0=0
1=1
2=2
3=3 to 4
4=5 to 8
5=9 to 16
6=17 to 32 1935 DDO
7= 33 to 64
8= 65 to 125 1917 DDO
9= 126 to 250
10= 251 to 500 1936 DDO
11= 501 to 1000 1983 DDR
12= 1001 to 2000
13= 2001 to 4000
14= 4001 to 8000
15= 8001 to 16000 1984 DDO and 1955 DDO
16= 16001 to 32000
17= 32001 to 65000
18= 65001 to 125000
19= 125001 to 250000
20= 250001 to 500000 1995 DDO is cheaper because of this! >>



Make that 33 on the 1935 DDO
With the diagnostic doubled ridge over the eye

foundinrolls

Here is what I find interesting about this. In practice I have found 6 1983 DDR cents in rolls over the years, hundreds of the various 1983 DDO cents. 2 of the 1984 "Doubled Bust cents" and 2 of the 1984 D DDO cents.

I have NOT found even 1 1984 Doubled ear cent during my searches of well over 2 million cents, at this point.

Maybe they are guessing wrong based upon the numbers of submissions. In practice, i find that the 1983 DDR cents are more common than the 1984 DDO, Doubled ear.

Thanks,
Bill

GrumpyEd

The reasons might be:

On the 84 DDOs people were on their toes over the 83 the year before and managed to hoard most of the good bags with them so less went into circulation. They even had bags at coin shows for YNs to search!

I know they decided some URS numbers based on the number of die states seen but it must not always work if a die fails fast or for example there are only 2 of the wild 1958 DDO and both are supposedly different die states. Go figure?

Another is the 94 DDR-1 the URS is 3 but I have had 5 of those myself and seen many on ebay. hmm!

Bill that's Amazing, you found hundreds of the other 83 DDOs?
I've never found die-2 and it's URS-11. I'm still looking!!!

foundinrolls

Howdy!

I have several (4 or 5) of the FS#1c-035, several(10 or so) of the FS#1c-035.1, several (4 or 5) of the FS#1c-035.2 that are still here and that I didn't sell. I've had around 40 of each at one time and the ones I still have I'm hanging on to.

Then I discovered 110 pieces of a new DDO on 1983 cents. It was back in December of 1999 John Wexler lists it in his files as WDDO-007a


I have at least 5 different DDO varieties out of the 7 that I am aware of. I also have both DDR varieties. There is one that has doubling that is more prominent on the AMERICA.

So on Obverses, I've had at least 200 with 6 different varieties involved. and on the reverses, 7 or 8 with two varieties involved.
Still, no 1984 Doubled Ear :-(

I think your logic is good though in that people may have pulled more of the doubled ears out of circulation since they just came off a round with the '83 dated coins.

foundinrolls

If I reported or had slabbed all the stuff I have sitting here, there would be two issues...one is that it would cost me a fortune and two is that it would throw all the pop reports on varieties out the window:-)