Have I been taken on this 1906 Proof US-PI Peso?

IloiloKano

I just watched several auctions end for some quite valuable US-PI pieces. I even bid on two of the items, since I thought it was worth the risk, but since I actually won one of them, I'd like to know if you think I have been taken. I have 10 days to send the money, so if anyone KNOWS the man and can provide their assessment, it would be greatly appreciated.

I wanted to bid higher on this coin, since it is at least a $2,000 coin if authentic and if the seller is not running a scam, but I could only bid up to 32,500 PhP (about $700), and I got outbid at the last second.
PHILIPPINES USA ADMIN 1 PESO 1906S KM-168

If it had not been so excessively polished, I would have taken the risk with a higher bid.

Here is the listing that I did win, and I find the coin to be much more pleasing anyway; however, it is probably an $800 plus coin. I won it for 20,100 PhP (about $435). Did I get scammed? Please tell me. I have thick skin, so my feelings won't be hurt if you call me a fool.
PHILIPPINES USA ADMIN 1 PESO 1906 PRF KM-168

I started to bid on the following item, but I just couldn't bring myself to take a further gamble. Look how little this GOLD coin fetched!
Spanish Philippines. Isabella II gold 4-Pesos

There was also this gold Spanish-PI gold 4 pesos, not as nice, but certainly worth more than the final bid.
Spain Philippines Isabel II gold 4 Pesos 1863 Item Number: 130125708897

There were also the following listed.
PHILIPPINES USA ADMIN 50CEN PROOF 1906 KM-167
PI - USA Administration 7-piece date set 1904

MadMarty

I think there are a few members here that live in the Phil, I'm sure one of them will chime in.

MrEureka

Well, the picture is of a real coin worth more than you paid, but there are plenty of red flags that indicate you may not get the coin.

One question I have is how many of the proofs ever made it to the Philippines?

IloiloKano

Actually, quite a few proofs got there. Remember that during that period William Howard Taft (the President) was Govenor of the Phillipines, and later Teddy Roosevelt (the President) became Govenor of the Philippines, so there were those there with the necessary wealth. And today, there are still collectors there, as well as Coin Dealers. Unfortunately, it was primarily those dealers who "shined up" there coins in order to make them more appealing to their customers. It is VERY hard to find uncirculated and proof examples that have not been fiddled with.

FilamCoins

I would not send money to this seller. He is not an established dealer here and I don't recognize the ebay ID. Check the past items he has sold to get to a 14 feedback. The winner of the other auction (visualjava or something like that) is a known fraudster. Beware! Regarding the coin itself, it appears from the photo to be a mishandled or impaired proof, so $400 would also be a little high. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Would suggest only buying high-value USPI certified from U.S. sellers or known Philippine dealers with a strong track record. Feel free to ask if you're not sure who's who in the Phil numismatic scene.

Justhavingfun

Yes, Mr. Filam is right. The 1906-S is not an obvious fake, but that doesn't mean it's real. And I doubt you'll track this guy down, with his heart-rending story of personal woe, if the coin is bogus. And even if it's real, it looks like an abusively cleaned coin and even though the market for 1906-S pesos is robust and rising, I doubt an XF that's been cleaned like that would pull very much.

The 1906 proof peso: I would have given it AU details from the scans, not XF, like the seller did. BUT, it's been cleaned and partially retoned. The cleaning is evident on obverse. The reverse is sort of attractive except for the uglesome fingerprint above the shield. Sorry, but as I said, I agree with Mr. Filam. You avoided a problem coin with the 06-S but picked up a problem with the proof 06.

The two gold coins went for bullion-type values which tells you something about the coins -- they both had the eye appeal of dirty dishwater. Were they cleaned? I wouldn't venture a guess, but I wouldn't have been surprised on dipped and/or cleaned.

Mr. Filam's advice is good. Buy from a dealer you know (or a friend knows), or buy certified NGC/PCGS/ANACS.

I follow that rule myself. And my favorite story is when Bill Elwell, a dealer with whom I had had many good dealings previously, put up on eBay a 1903 1/2 centavo which he said was the finest he had ever seen in 13 years as a dealer. I don't even think there was a scan, but I bid the moon for it on his say so. The moon, back then in the early days, was $200, and if I remember correctly, I won it for $140 something. PCGS slabbed it MS67 red which was then pop 1/0. Now, I think it's pop 2/0.

So file that guy's name (Bill Elwell) away in your memory bank as one of the good guys in US Philippines.

In the meantime, I'm on my way to Manila. Mr. Filam: Is it true you're no longer in Manila? Does this mean our coins nights are no more?

Warm regards,



Just Having Fun and lots of it

MrEureka

Is this the proper mintmark style?

IloiloKano

Having the two of you advising against the transaction, I decided to take your advise. However, the person (in this case, a woman) did respond to my request for a scan of the the coin, in order to establish that it was actually available to her for such a purpose. She also responded that one person who I outbid has offered her more for the coin, having seen it in person, and she asked me to let her know if I did not want the coin. So I did. I also gave her some instructions, just in case she is legitamite, that would help her in future sales on ebay, which being she should travel to meet dealers in Manila, who could assess her integrity, and vouch that she is at the very least a real person living at a certain specifc address. If I have an address, I can arrange to have them tracked down in the Philippines. Both Filam and JHF likely know what I mean in that regard.

I would take (to the letter) all the advise offered; however, I am one who is trying to build a US-PI collection of higher grade coins, which are not perfect, since I do not have the finances to afford coins that even approach the quality of coins held by JHF. So I seek avenues where I may be able to get the more expensive coins at significantly reduced prices. One of those methods is to search the listings on ebay.ph, where sellers state willingness to ship worldwide, but their listings do not show up on ebay.com or ebay.co.uk, because they were not aware you must specifically check a certain box before that will occur. These were such auctions, as they would not be found through a typical search on ebay.com. They show up only if you conduct a search by specific item number.

So thanks for the advice, but I really wanted to fill that particular slot, and several others as well. Oh well, such is life.

Here are reduced size images she sent, with links to larger scans below...

1906 Peso Proof Obverse

1906 Peso Proof Reverse

FilamCoins

<< <i>In the meantime, I'm on my way to Manila. Mr. Filam: Is it true you're no longer in Manila? Does this mean our coins nights are no more? >>



I'm currently on assignment in Florida. Back to the Phils July 9th. Hope to see you then if you're still around!

IloiloKano

"assignment in Florida. Back to the Phils July 9th"

Dreadfully long flight! Take along some Ambien.