PSA's tampered cases
hofautos
Posts: 1,934
Does anyone on the board know when PSA came out with the new "tamper-proof" cases? What serial number did they start with?
The reason I ask is because the below card to me looks unusually bright and nicer than a '4'.
Thoughts?
The reason I ask is because the below card to me looks unusually bright and nicer than a '4'.
Thoughts?
0
Comments
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as for the Robby it looks like a 4/5 to me.
Steve
<< <i>I did not know that they did. I was under the impression that PSA used a 'tamper evident' holder.
as for the Robby it looks like a 4/5 to me.
Steve >>
They created new tamper evident cases a few years ago. Jackie's cards are very tough (i have seen 6's that look worse), and the color on this card is unusual.
Perhaps i should take this to the vintage section...
compare to these
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>are you thinking the card in the case may be counterfeit or altered? the back could be causing the lower grade. >>
I really don't know what to look for on a counterfeit, was hoping someone on the boards may know. I don't feel like spending time and money to ship back to PSA to get them to regrade, when it is their fault they made cases that were easily tampered with previously. I would like to think that if I buy a card in a psa case that i can be assured it hasn't been tampered with.
<< <i>The cases do not appear to be tampered. Normally, you will see unusual frosting around the corners.. Which I don't see. >>
Thanks - i hope you are right...do you think it is worth my money to resend it in to get it reauthenticated...
Do you know what date or what number they started making the new cases?
<< <i>I really don't know what to look for on a counterfeit, was hoping someone on the boards may know. I don't feel like spending time and money to ship back to PSA to get them to regrade, when it is their fault they made cases that were easily tampered with previously. I would like to think that if I buy a card in a psa case that i can be assured it hasn't been tampered with. >>
If the case has been tampered with, you can usually spot it. In the scan in question, the case doesn't look as if it has been tampered with. You'll usually see solid white along the edges of the slab. To get a good idea of this, get a junk graded card and stick a screwdriver or a knife along the seem and push up to open the case. Notice the whitening that occurs along the edges as the seal breaks.
If a counterfeit slipped by the graders, then it's PSA's fault and from what I understand, they'll buy the counterfeit back. Has PSA made mistakes before? Yes. Do they do it often? No.
With the scan in question, it's a recent looking slab and flip. The card itself has some staining on the edges, and some obvious dings in a few corners. The card might have a crease that you can't see from the scan.
Do you have this card in-hand?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Do you know what date or what number they started making the new cases? >>
The cert numbers don't follow any real sequence.
A few submissions I sent out in the past...
November 2005 = certs 905xxxxx
November 2006 = certs 065xxxxx
March 2007 = certs 405xxxxx
You can get an idea of how old a slab is by the style of flip it has. Someone on the boards here has probably figured out the year ranges. However, that doesn't keep someone from sending the card in for reholdering, which usually gets them a new flip (same cert #) made as well.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>I really don't know what to look for on a counterfeit, was hoping someone on the boards may know. I don't feel like spending time and money to ship back to PSA to get them to regrade, when it is their fault they made cases that were easily tampered with previously. I would like to think that if I buy a card in a psa case that i can be assured it hasn't been tampered with. >>
If the case has been tampered with, you can usually spot it. In the scan in question, the case doesn't look as if it has been tampered with. You'll usually see solid white along the edges of the slab. To get a good idea of this, get a junk graded card and stick a screwdriver or a knife along the seem and push up to open the case. Notice the whitening that occurs along the edges as the seal breaks.
If a counterfeit slipped by the graders, then it's PSA's fault and from what I understand, they'll buy the counterfeit back. Has PSA made mistakes before? Yes. Do they do it often? No.
With the scan in question, it's a recent looking slab and flip. The card itself has some staining on the edges, and some obvious dings in a few corners. The card might have a crease that you can't see from the scan.
Do you have this card in-hand? >>
PSA is not at fault if someone tampers their cases, and with the big FBI sting operation, the criminals had a custom machine to do the "tampering", not a screwdriver.
I haven't seen a jackie that doesn't have staining, and the little bit of staining on the borders looks 1000% better than what you see on most surfaces even of much higher grades.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you know what date or what number they started making the new cases? >>
The cert numbers don't follow any real sequence.
A few submissions I sent out in the past...
November 2005 = certs 905xxxxx
November 2006 = certs 065xxxxx
March 2007 = certs 405xxxxx
You can get an idea of how old a slab is by the style of flip it has. Someone on the boards here has probably figured out the year ranges. However, that doesn't keep someone from sending the card in for reholdering, which usually gets them a new flip (same cert #) made as well. >>
so the certs don't go in numerical order? I wonder why they do that??
Maybe someone here can reply what the difference is in the "flips" between the old and new cases?
Along the same lines though, you can never be sure that there's no lunatic on a roof somewhere watching you through the scope of his sniper rifle.
However, looking a few cards up and down from this cert, looks like someone got hosed on their submission, or a card doctor got a few cards through...
04673566 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673565 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673564 = 1948 Bowman Stan Musial = PSA 5
04673563 = 1948 Bowman Warren Sphan - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673562 = 1948 Bowman - PSA 7
04673561 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673560 = Jackie = PSA 4
04673559 = 1941 Play Ball - PSA 5
04673558 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673557 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, altered
04673556 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673555 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673554 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673553 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 6
04673552 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673551 = 1941 Play Ball - Ted Williams - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673550 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673549 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>With the scan in question, it's a recent looking slab and flip.
Do you have this card in-hand? >>
How can you tell it is a recent slab/flip...what do you look for?
No - i don't yet have it in hand. I just won it, and am contemplating the hit for NPB if i think it is fake. I would rather take the NPB hit than $600 for a worthless card. And with you showing me the cards surrounding it, make me all the more suspicious.
<< <i>
<< <i>With the scan in question, it's a recent looking slab and flip.
Do you have this card in-hand? >>
How can you tell it is a recent slab/flip...what do you look for?
No - i don't yet have it in hand. I just won it, and am contemplating the hit for NPB if i think it is fake. I would rather take the NPB hit than $600 for a worthless card. And with you showing me the cards surrounding it, make me all the more suspicious. >>
So if it is a new case, and hasn't been tampered, and if PSA did make a mistake and grade a fake, do they have any guarantees? I do want the card, and happy with the price, and if I knew PSA does guarantee what they grade to be authentic, I would go ahead and pay for it.
BTW, thanks everyone for all the great information. How do you acquire your knowledge or are some responding PSA employees?
And back to a few previous unanswered questions...
1. How can you tell an old case/flip from a new one...Surely not all cert #'s beginning with 04 are new?
2. Is there any other way to tell besides knowing the series of cert #
3. Can someone post the different cert #'s and their dates
4. Were the certs always 8 digits?
MOST IMPORTANTLY -
If PSA does accidently grade a fake, do they guarantee it? will they reimburse the cost of the card?
<< <i>are the cards marked with visible ink or something once graded? If i were to crack the card and resubmit it to get a new number... >>
No, they're not marked. You can crack and resubmit the card. However, if you're doing so because you suspect the card is a fake or altered, then you're running the risk that PSA will agree.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>are the cards marked with visible ink or something once graded? If i were to crack the card and resubmit it to get a new number... >>
No, they're not marked. You can crack and resubmit the card. However, if you're doing so because you suspect the card is a fake or altered, then you're running the risk that PSA will agree. >>
If I take large scans showing the new case/flip unaltered with the same card in it as one they later say is fake... there is no way there is any other card with these same markings, unless it is fake.
MOST IMPORTANTLY -
If PSA does accidently grade a fake, do they guarantee it? will they reimburse the cost of the card? >>
julen
RIP GURU
Dallas Cowboys
SuperBowl MVPs
Heisman Trophy Winers
"The PSA Financial Guarantee Of Grade & Authenticity
The PSA Financial Guarantee of Grade & Authenticity is fundamental to PSA's concept of third-party grading. The cash-back policy ensures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA-graded card as long as the card remains in its tamper-evident holder.
PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA."
Considering the amount of $$ you've dropped as of late, I strongly suggest you contact PSA directly with your questions.
While it makes an interesting topic on the forums, you will get what you're looking for straight from the horse's mouth.
The slab has been 'tamper evident since day 1.
If someone tries to open the slab it will frost.
And YES PSA will make you whole if they find that they graded a card that turns out to be fake.
Steve
NO
Steve
edited to adfd: bought from yorktown sc.................I bought a card from them once. a raw 48 robby they claimed was ex mnt. I had it graded..came back a 2.
a crease had been spooned out, and of course I could not see that from a scan. i was hoping for a 4 and got a 2. last card i will ever buy from them. The certs shown with all the evid of trimming does not surprise me know that i saw it was them that you bought from.
Steve
<< <i>hofautos,
Considering the amount of $$ you've dropped as of late, I strongly suggest you contact PSA directly with your questions.
While it makes an interesting topic on the forums, you will get what you're looking for straight from the horse's mouth. >>
Actually i have contacted them directly, and wasn't happy with the answers they provided, which is WHY i turned to the message boards. They didn't even want to tell me if it was an old case or new case. THey didn't offer me the information that if I re-submitted and it was fake, that they would reimburse me. They seemed to want to distance themselves from answering my questions. A LOT more information has been provided here...
I actually am putting together a rather large order for PSA, and have got all sorts of conflicting information regarding authenticating autos as well...it seems like they are "disjointed' in several ways.
<< <i>Last year I bought an Emmitt Smith Burger King PSA9 that turned out to be a fake. Called customer service & explained the situation. I was told to send card in for review along with proof of purchase price. Got an refund check in the mail a week later. Great customer service experience for me......... >>
How did you know it was fake?
DId they say they would charge you for review? I guess my main concern now is all the trimmed cards that surround this card, besides the color, that may me suspect. It's a beautiful card, I would love to have a better comfort to know that it is authentic.
<< <i>
<< <i>hofautos,
Considering the amount of $$ you've dropped as of late, I strongly suggest you contact PSA directly with your questions.
While it makes an interesting topic on the forums, you will get what you're looking for straight from the horse's mouth. >>
Actually i have contacted them directly, and wasn't happy with the answers they provided, which is WHY i turned to the message boards. They didn't even want to tell me if it was an old case or new case. THey didn't offer me the information that if I re-submitted and it was fake, that they would reimburse me. They seemed to want to distance themselves from answering my questions. A LOT more information has been provided here...
I actually am putting together a rather large order for PSA, and have got all sorts of conflicting information regarding authenticating autos as well...it seems like they are "disjointed' in several ways. >>
You should email Joe Orlando directly at: jorlando@collectors.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>hofautos,
Considering the amount of $$ you've dropped as of late, I strongly suggest you contact PSA directly with your questions.
While it makes an interesting topic on the forums, you will get what you're looking for straight from the horse's mouth. >>
Actually i have contacted them directly, and wasn't happy with the answers they provided, which is WHY i turned to the message boards. They didn't even want to tell me if it was an old case or new case. THey didn't offer me the information that if I re-submitted and it was fake, that they would reimburse me. They seemed to want to distance themselves from answering my questions. A LOT more information has been provided here...
I actually am putting together a rather large order for PSA, and have got all sorts of conflicting information regarding authenticating autos as well...it seems like they are "disjointed' in several ways. >>
You should email Joe Orlando directly at: jorlando@collectors.com >>
thanks, i will do just that...
<< <i>I guess my main concern now is all the trimmed cards that surround this card, besides the color, that may me suspect. It's a beautiful card, I would love to have a better comfort to know that it is authentic. >>
You need to add this book to your library:
The SCD Sportscard Counterfeit Detector
It's an older book (the newest issue was from 1994), but has a lot of good information (and pictures) on how to spot fake cards.
For the most part, you want to get famaliar with how the printed card looks. Notice it's details, how it looks under magnification, etc. You don't necessarly need a 1952 Mantle to be able to figure out what a fake 1952 Mantle looks like though. A lot of the counterfeit cards tend to have tell-tale signs that make it look unusually different from how cards are supposed to look (different font, blurry images, unusual dot paterns, areas where the "black" parts of the card seem to blend into the colored part of the image).
Sometimes a fake is so bad that you can tell it's a fake from a mile a way. Sometimes they're good enough that they need to be looked at for a bit more than 1 second.
If you buy a fake card in a PSA slab, their policy says they'll make it right. However, if you break the card out of the case and send it back in, they won't give you anything if it's fake.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
PSA is very hard on cards with even tiny creases.
<< <i>Well, if you're worried that someone has tampered with the card and resealed it w/o any evidence of tampering, then you'd probably be better off NOT buying the card, as you can never be sure.
Along the same lines though, you can never be sure that there's no lunatic on a roof somewhere watching you through the scope of his sniper rifle.
However, looking a few cards up and down from this cert, looks like someone got hosed on their submission, or a card doctor got a few cards through...
04673566 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673565 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673564 = 1948 Bowman Stan Musial = PSA 5
04673563 = 1948 Bowman Warren Sphan - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673562 = 1948 Bowman - PSA 7
04673561 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673560 = Jackie = PSA 4
04673559 = 1941 Play Ball - PSA 5
04673558 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673557 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, altered
04673556 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673555 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673554 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673553 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 6
04673552 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673551 = 1941 Play Ball - Ted Williams - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673550 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673549 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming >>
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying any slabbed card within this graded run. Too many other cards are tampered with.
Judging by the serial number on the Robinson that begins 0701, I think that looks to be slabbed around 1997 or 1998. I was once told by a National dealer that certs that begin 070***** were show grades. Not sure if this is true or not. I had two cards slabbed with similar serial numbers at the '97 National in Cleveland.
I believe just after the WIWAG scandal, PSA changed holders to a tamper evident holder. Wasn't that in 2001 or so?
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if you're worried that someone has tampered with the card and resealed it w/o any evidence of tampering, then you'd probably be better off NOT buying the card, as you can never be sure.
Along the same lines though, you can never be sure that there's no lunatic on a roof somewhere watching you through the scope of his sniper rifle.
However, looking a few cards up and down from this cert, looks like someone got hosed on their submission, or a card doctor got a few cards through...
04673566 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673565 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673564 = 1948 Bowman Stan Musial = PSA 5
04673563 = 1948 Bowman Warren Sphan - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673562 = 1948 Bowman - PSA 7
04673561 = 1948 Bowman - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673560 = Jackie = PSA 4
04673559 = 1941 Play Ball - PSA 5
04673558 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673557 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, altered
04673556 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673555 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673554 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673553 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 6
04673552 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673551 = 1941 Play Ball - Ted Williams - not holdered, evidence of trimming
04673550 = 1941 Play Ball - Pee Wee Reese = PSA 7
04673549 = 1941 Play Ball - not holdered, evidence of trimming >>
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying any slabbed card within this graded run. Too many other cards are tampered with.
Judging by the serial number on the Robinson that begins 0701, I think that looks to be slabbed around 1997 or 1998. I was once told by a National dealer that certs that begin 070***** were show grades. Not sure if this is true or not. I had two cards slabbed with similar serial numbers at the '97 National in Cleveland.
I believe just after the WIWAG scandal, PSA changed holders to a tamper evident holder. Wasn't that in 2001 or so? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>You should email Joe Orlando directly at: jorlando@collectors.com >>
thanks, i will do just that... >>
So did Joe respond?