My first PSA Gradings Came Back - Geesh

dalew

As part of my gold membership, I picked four high numbered cards to send in. Those that I thought that would come back at either 7 or better. When I clicked on the Submission Status, they came back with (2) sevens and (2) sixes. I wasn't happy about it, not because of them, but because I may have to revise how I look at cards.

I tried to enter them in the Set Registry but it didn't say that they were valid. At what point does PSA let you enter the cards into the Set Registry after they have listed them in the Submission Status?

I hope that the other 50 or so do better.

I'm going back to ebay.

Best, Dale

qualitycards

DALE - Give it a few days before it can be used for the Set registry.
Also, I'm sure we all have submitted cards that we thought would come in higher then the actual grade. PSA doesn't give any gifts, the card must earn it. Your submission are a good learning expierence for future submissions...jay

carkim

Dale> When submitting cards be real hard on the cards and yourself. Don't wish for anything...You have to know it. Or do what I do.

1

Examine the card.

2

Tell yourself OUT LOUD what the card will grade.

3

Write that number on a piece of paper.

4

Then scratch that number out.

5

Then say OUT LOUD one number less than the one you just scratched out.

6

Finally, write the new number down.

You'll fell better when your cards come back...Trust me this works


Jay> This "valid card" thing is driving me crazy. PSA recently switched to a new server (Oracle??), And all these delays were supposed to be eliminated. NOT!!! I still have to email PSA to get my cards entered in a timely fashion. If not it could take much more than a couple of days to get my cards in the Set Registry database.

dalew

Would go you as low as a 6 in the Set Registry and upgrade just to show progress. I notice that most Set Registry cards are listed at a minimum of 7, which is not many.

Learning.

Dale

mcastaldi

Dale> Kind of going along with what Carlos said, my advice when looking at cards to submit is to be honest - brutally honest. To convince yourself a flaw is smaller than it is or a card is better than it is will only set yourself up for a disappointment that's probably similar to what you're feeling right now.

When I look at cards, I usually follow a process something like this-
1) Look at centering. If centering is good enough for a 9 NQ, go on to #2. . .if not, card goes back on the stack.
2) Look at corners with the eye. If sharp corners with naked eye, go to #3. . .if not, card goes back.
3) Look at surface for wrinkles, snow, stains or any other problems. If OK, go to #4, if not. . .
4) Look at the back for wrinkles, centering (rear), etc. . .if OK, #5. . .if not. . .
Then I remove the card from the penny sleeve and card saver essentially start over - this time looking even closer.
1) Centering
2) Corners with naked eye. If OK, pull out the lopue and look at them at 10x with good light.
3) Surface - look at under good light and use the loupe as necessary
4) Rear - same as #3

With this process, I thoroughly scrutinize each card twice and with no time limits. The cards that pass eact step twice are the ones I deem worthy of submission. Keep in mind, it should be much easier to find cards you shouldn't submit than it is to find ones to submit. Let the unacceptable ones weed themselves out. It usually takes me 1-2 minutes per card in the first round and then another 3-5 minutes per card in the tougher round.

At least with 1972s, when looking at raw cards I've found it much easier to tell the difference between a 7 and an 8 than it is to tell an 8 from a 9. And I know you've seen enough 7s and 8s from 1972 to have the chance at getting a feel for it. You seem to have the right attitude so don't get discouraged. This was your first submission and learn from it. Your "eye" will get better with time and practice. Consider a lopue and a good halogen desk lamp as required accessories.

As for the lowest card to put in the regsitry, that's entirely up to you. If you look at my set, I have quite a few 7s. I've worked hard to upgrade the stars to 8s and upgrade commons when I can, but I don't lose sleep over the 7s being there.

Mike

brucemo

I got creamed real bad today in an interesting way.

In November I went and scoured cards shops for '86 Fleer Basketball commons. I started at my local shop, and I remember picking some cards that looked like they had minor corner wear. I then went to various other shops, and became a little pickier as I realized that cards with no visible corner wear do exist.

I sent in about 100 of these at the "bulk" service level.

A few days later I found some more of these at a show, and a few more at a shop. Perhaps 35 all told. I sent these in via the November special.

The November special stuff came back real quick, and I had more than 1/3 9's, the rest 8's, and no 7's. I was very excited about the 100 other cards.

Today they arrived: 1/3 7's, 2/3 8's, and exactly one 9.

I looked at the 7's and they were all garbage. I conclude that I got a lot better at grading these after the first 100, but it's still interesting that the big bunch had basically no good cards in it. You'd think that I'd have bad cards at the bottom end if I didn't know what I was doing, but it's hard to avoid having *some* good cards, too. Maybe the stock I was looking at was all poor.

An expensive lesson to learn, but probably worth it in the long run.

bruce

skylaneflyer

With respect to the card being a valid cert, yet not postable to the Registry - this is a common problem PSA will fix soon. If it weren't for BJ, Gayle Kean and the programmers to correct these errors quickly, alot of the fun of the Registry would have been gone for me.

Entering, editing, maintaining and auditing your collection on the Registry is very rewarding and I know that getting it right requires tremendous patience. Although some frustration can set in, if you remember that it's all about fun, the frustration will pass. Enjoy the cards, the hobby and all it has to offer. To have a Registry and an open forum to talk about it is a real luxury for me.

Sky

Wayne8348

I need to vent. I just got the results to my 4th submission to PSA on the net today and saw that out of 63 1965's I got 33 8's and rest 7's. The last batch I sent in was over 80% 8's with 7 of them coming back 9's. I would have sworn that this last batch of cards was the best that I have submitted by far. I'm definitely a novice, but it really seems that these cards were either undergraded or the last batch was over graded. The math is almost embarrassing - I bought the cards from a dealer claiming mint condition (of course I would have been tickled pink with nm/mt). After paying nearly $900 for the cards plus $400 for grading I end up with $40 apiece for mostly commons and a couple semistars. Until I get much better (or feel much luckier) I guess that I'll be joining the ranks of those who strictly buy graded cards. Five of the cards didn't even get graded due to being miscut. I guess that this can happen from vending boxes also.

Thats enough venting. I have a new appreciation for those who are able to get their desired grades fairly consistently from PSA. If anybody needs any 7's from 1965, I'll definitely have several available. The folks that do the bulk submissions for a living earn their money.

Wayne

NeilDowney

Hi Wayne8348, My friend and I have just started a modest psa graded 1965 Topps set. Please email me with a list of psa graded cards that you are willing to sell. We are looking for psa 8 mostly but we would consider lower grades for the right players. No qualifiers please. We don't have much in the war chest yet so go easy on us with the prices. You can email me at downey@viconet.com. I hope to hear from you soon. Neil

Scoop

Dale and Wayne> I can commiserate with your venting.

With help of shows and ebay, I recently finished building a very high-end ungraded set of 1956 Topps (340 cards in set--most of which I owned since wax packs--one of the lucky kids who decided not to flip them).

I decided to grade cards to increase value and protect them. This set is worth $4000 to $5000 or so in NM/MT condition ungraded, and a PSA 8 set is worth $35,000 to $40,000, so figure it out yourself. I have been submitting them 25 at a time every 3 months or so to spread cost--how do you guys with 700+ card sets do it?

Anyway, like Brucemo says, as I learned, percentage of PSA 8's have been increasing, and 6's or less eliminated altogether. It is a little less of a gamble to grade 50's commons, as 7's will value out as a push...one is able to sell for about cost of nice nm raw + grading cost (used to be $8/card for vintage commons)...whereas 60's or 70's must grade out at least one grade higher for same result. Matter of fact, some low pop 7's in my set get $40+, so I have familiarized myself with these and even lower my standard to submit these, sometimes even knowing that a card will not 8. These are not for my set (PSA 8 or better), but are used as trade.

But last 2 batches have me scratching my head. I got 15 7's my last submission. I was very upset. I decided to break them all out and re-submit as part of my next batch...an added expense and gamble. All 15 came back 8's this time, along with 3 9's (my first ones).

I have bought a few cards already graded, but it is enjoyable and self-gratifying, not to mention less expensive, to buy raw and submit yourself. The anticipation of getting your cards back is like a kid on Christmas Eve coming down the stairs and looking under the tree.

The moral of this thread, which is getting long-winded now, is that there is a great variation in graders (even tho 2 out of 3 graders have to agree on final grade). And if you subscribe to mcastaldi and carkim's notion of being tough and honest with your cards, YOU will get to know which cards are worthy of submission. Your last resort is to go to PSA show and discuss disagreements with rep.

JIM S, 4th highest current, 5th all-time 1956 set.

PS. Been waiting 2 weeks to upgrade set with last submissions.

Nuyauwka

I understand where everyone is coming from with the submissions. It took me a while before I got the hang of it. What does bother me about the grades is what was mentioned in Scoops entry. He broke out 15 PSA 7's and received all PSA 8's the next time!! I do this as well and have been very successful at it but it just does not seem right. That is just too much gray area for this to happen as much as it does. I have had a trimmed card come back a PSA 10, my last invoice I had 2 PSA 6's come back a PSA 8's, and a ton of PSA 7's come back as PSA 8's. It is expensive enough to grade the cards, let alone, to do it twice because you know the card deems a better grade, then you send it in and just like you knew , it gets the higher grade. I always tell myself to send PSA the tab that came out of the lower grade card and plead my case for a refund, but I never go that far because I'm so glad I got the grade I deserved. I don't know, but I think you should only have to pay once to get the card graded, ther should be some way to get re-imbursed when you pay twice on a card and it gets different grades.

purelyPSA

I don't know if PSA would do that...say you had Joe Shlabotnik in a PSA 7, and found a better one that grades an 8. It'd be easy to bust the other holder open after getting the second card back - sending the first holder to PSA and say hey, I got an 8 on this card you gave a 7 to previously, can I have a free submission? To all on this board who make this a great hobby this might seem to be completely out of the question, but I'll bet there are a bunch of people looking for something for nothing who'd love to screw PSA. And for that reason, they probably won't offer something like that unless they themselves switch the card's grade - and I agree.

**Edited for clarification**

TheCARDKid

I've been happy with the submissions I've made. Probably 75% of the time what I thought was an 8, has came back an 8 or a 9. An occasional 6 or 7 pops up. I've never gotten anything less than a 6 from PSA (at least not yet). Here's my criteria:

If the centering looks good on the front (better than 67-33 to be safe for 8's), I immediately look at the corners. I put nearly all of the criteria on the corners. This method has worked for me so far, so I won't change it. The key is to be brutally honest. If there is any wear at all on the front corners, even a teeny tiny bit, I know it won't be a 9.

Good lighting is essential. I usually look at them by a window on a sunny day (If I got them through the mail). For me, that brings out everything, the good, the bad and the ugly. There is no hiding it. If one or two corners looks "soft" as compared to "nicked", it's going to push it towards a "7". I use my naked eye.

After checking the corners, I pay attention to print marks, "snow", stains, wrinkles, etc. If that's ok, I'll look at the back (I hardly ever pay attention to back centering though, unless it's a miscut).

When I've finished that routine, I won't submit the cards that are borderline for the grade I want. Cards that are otherwise 8's but have a little ink on the front and may get a qualifier or a lower grade. Not worth the chance.

My motto, "when it doubt, leave the card out".

TheCARDKid

lol, "when in doubt, leave the card out". You get the idea

waitilltheytrytosell

dalew - Assuming centering is fine, cards that look like 7 or better, but come back 6, will usually have a very light wrinkle on the reverse of the card. You will usually find them in the middle of the short sides of the cards, creeping in from the edge. They are more often found on larger size cards, where it is harder to get the cards in and out of tight holders or pages. They are sometimes very hard to see, especially seeing as how a lot of people don't think about looking for wrinkles in that area. Look at the backs at an angle to get the surface kind of reflective and rotate them around while looking in those areas. At certain angles they will be more visible.

toppsgun

I decided to break them all out and re-submit as part of my next batch...an added expense and gamble. All 15 came back 8's this time, along with 3 9's

That's just not right. But I know it's true. Sometimes you have to submit a card 3 or 4 times before it gets the grade you want. I played that game for a while, but not any more. I now collect NM-MT cards, not PSA 8 holders. I also hold on to my Franklins and Grants that way.