Best 1960-1971 football set of the year?

nearmint · June 15, 2007 12:44PM

What, did they give it to the first one they looked at?

BEST VINTAGE FOOTBALL SET OF THE YEAR (1960-1971) Museum of Sports
History - 1960 Topps Football

It's a great set, but by no measure does it seem like this year's best. It's not even MOSH's best.

Best GPA (and complete):
1. MOSH, 1964 Philadelphia, 9.17
2. Nearmint, 1960 Fleer, 9.05
3. MOSH, 1969 Topps, 8.92

Closest to finest possible:
1. Nearmint, 1960 Fleer, 0.06 (9.11 minus 9.05)
2. MOSH, 1964 Philadelphia, 0.11
3. MOSH, 1960 Topps, 0.12

Farthest in first:
1. Nearmint, 1960 Fleer, 1.01 (9.05 minus 8.04)
2. MOSH, 1970 Topps, 0.90
3. Wolfbear, 1962 Fleer, 0.74

Most years in first:
1. Wolfbear, 1962 Fleer, 6
2t. Antix, 1961 Fleer, 5
2t. Nearmint, 1960 Fleer, 5

Could it be the most valuable? Doubt it. For value, I'd guess any of these would top MOSH's 1960 Topps set:

1963 Topps (MOSH) - tough colored borders; Lilly, Nitschke, and Wood RCs, nasty low pops
1964 Topps (Alan Piehl) - Bell and Buchanan RCs, some tough short prints
1966 Philadelphia (MOSH) - Sayers, Butkus, Bob Brown RCs, some tough low pops
1967 Philadelphia (skinsfan) - Kelly, Smith, Wilcox RCs, more low pops

I don't recall any really tough cards in the 1960 Topps set, and it has what, one rookie HOFer?

Besides all this, MOSH bought most of the 1960 Topps set from Mantlefan. Most of the non-MOSH sets above were built card-by-card. Top 10, sure. Top set? Bah.

JasP24 · June 15, 2007 12:51PM

<< What, did they give it to the first one they looked at? >>

I think the belief was since it was the oldest, must be the toughest..60 Topps is actually one of the easier sets from the 60's..67 Philly, 62 Topps and Fleer, 69 Topps, etc, etc..All way tougher and all more expensive...

They didnt do there homework is all..

Jason

envoy98 · June 15, 2007 1:41PM

Personally I think the 64 set is much, much tougher than the 60 set. I was surprised by that set being given the award as well. 66 Philly, 67 Philly and 69 Topps are much tougher I think. Heck, 66 Toppps is probably a lot tougher. 62 and 63 are both fantastic sets, but perhaps they've been recognized before? I don't pay attention to the full sets as I focus on the key card and hof sets in FB, but I have cards from just about every set during that era.

I didn't win anything and I didn't get snubbed as I wasn't really in the running so... I have no dog in this fight as they say.

glossycrazy · June 16, 2007 12:40AM

I admit that I had to laugh when I saw that the MOSH 1960 topps set won that award! Ebay is loaded with high grade 1960 topps cards almost every month! After looking at all the information provided by nearmint I would have to vote for his FLEER set. This set is SO FAR out in front of the competition and is closest to the finest possible for all the sets listed!! There's my 2 cents!
Paul

2dueces · June 16, 2007 12:50AM

Wolfies 1962 Fleer Set is by far the most impressive set ever assembled. And to be unchallanged 6 years running. WOW...
Congrads as always to Wolfbear.

shouldabeena10 · June 16, 2007 1:24AM

Yea, I agree.

Also, once again there was no awards or recognition for the R.F.C.C.O.A. catagories either. It's a travisty and someday the RFCCOA will rise up and protest this injustice!

Mike

nearmint · June 16, 2007 1:35AM

<< And to be unchallanged 6 years running. WOW. >>

No doubt. And that's with some serious competition. Plus he has a picture and comment for every card in the set!

It'll be even better next year--let's hope it gets a closer look.

shouldabeena10 · June 16, 2007 2:19AM

OK, OK, ... stop PM'ing me.

R.F.C.C.O.A. ='s Round Football Card Collectors Of America

cardbender · June 16, 2007 7:48AM

My vote would be:

1) Wolfbear's '62 Fleer set. Huge gpa gap between him and the second place guy. Plus six years running at number 1 for this issue. Super tough set due to centering problems throughout the set. Also of note, Wolf built it card by card. Impressive.

2) Skinsfan's '67 Phily set. He has a close competitor on his heels for next year, but Art's set is just fantastic and again built card by card.

3)Mosh '66 Phily set. This was at one time was Rgold's set. One of the hardest set's from the 1960's to complete in just PSA 8. Not to mention it contains about 90 PSA 9's is just unreal to me. The only reason it's third here is MOSH didn't build it himself. That credit goes to Ron.

There's so many fine sets out there. It's really tough to decide on just one. There's also many unregistered sets and near complete sets that may top the list next year or in years to come too.

For now, I like these top three sets for the 1960's.

BoltBoy · June 16, 2007 12:22PM

Nearmint's 60' Fleer set has my vote for quality but Wolfman's 62' Fleer set gets it for dominance. Just my opinion.

2dueces · June 17, 2007 9:24AM

<< Nearmint's 60' Fleer set has my vote for quality but Wolfman's 62' Fleer set gets it for dominance. Just my opinion. >>

Both great sets. Hard to pick when it comes to the quality these guys have put together.
Class sets built by to classy guys.

jayhawke · June 17, 2007 8:06PM

I think Art's '67 philly is an amazing set and should have beaten out the 60 topps set.

cardbender · June 17, 2007 9:00PM

Some sets that rarely get mentioned and are considered
regional sets are the Kahn's weiner sets.

Davalillo's '64 Kahn's color Football set is just tremendous in my opinion. It's a beautiful all color, borderless design set, that features many of the NFL's stars of the day.

The set contains 18 HOF'ers including Unitas, Tarkenton, Starr, Jim Brown, Huff, Mitchell, Jim Taylor, Hornung, Tittle, and Ditka among others. It also includes the pre-rookie card of HOF'er Paul Warfield.

Davalillo's GPA is 8.41 out of a possible 8.68. Simply outstanding.
If Jim would ever want to part with this fine set, I'd be a strong buyer......

You never see this set for sale. And rarely are there any high grade cards from this issue offered for sale either. It's just plain scarce. In the future this set should be considered for the set of the decade in my humble opinion.

Rich

Buccaneer · June 17, 2007 10:48PM

So the bottom line is that PSA completely blew it on this one?

carew4me · June 18, 2007 12:12AM

<< So the bottom line is that PSA completely blew it on this one? >>

Leaky gasket at a minimum.

nearmint · June 18, 2007 8:11AM

<< So the bottom line is that PSA completely blew it on this one? >>

That appears to be the consensus. If my memory is correct, back when mantlefan had the set, it might have been a better candidate. It seems to me that a few years ago the GPA on his 60 Topps and 64 Philadelphia sets were well beyond the best of the other sets. Since then, people have caught up with other, tougher sets.

I would have a hard time choosing between the 3 sets cardbender named, and throw in MOSH's 63 Topps and Piehl's 64 Topps sets as well. I hadn't even considered Dav's 64 Kahns set. I'd put MOSH's 60 Topps set at 6th or 8th of those that haven't received awards before, and it sounds like most of the others who responded would, too.

Mantlefan · June 18, 2007 9:13AM

Thanks Mike! MOSH added a few upgrades, but that 1960 Topps FB set is basically the one that I assembled. That is certainly one of the Registry Award flaws....you can buy your way to the top. Actually, considering the price MOSH paid for my set, I have absolutely no regrets.

handyman · June 18, 2007 9:18AM

1963 and 1965 Topps sets are the best from that era.

cardbender · June 19, 2007 5:35PM

That 'Nearmint' fellow has some pretty strong sets too. Didn't mean to ignore your fine set building accomplishments.
I can't wait to see your '65 Phily set in all PSA 10s! It might take you 20 years to build it but it would be THE BEST 1960's FB set ever.

Also, I would have to agree with your assesment of Frank E's fine 1960 and '64 Phily sets b4 they went to the MOSH headquarters. At the time he was building them, they were well above all others as far as gpa goes, if I recall clearly. I would still put both sets in the top 10 sets of the decade for Football.

Personally, I've always admired the '62 and '63 Topps sets. With the colored borders, tons of shortprints, and outstanding RC's in both sets, any set above 8.0 gpa is very impressive. Plus you can't ignore the eye appeal those sets have in high grade.

Fuzz · June 20, 2007 1:33AM

While I admit that that would probably not have been my first choice and I also think not MOSH's best set from the era, it is the subjective decision of the group with the authority to pick the official set winner. Our subjective decision may have been different but between three or four sets we would have been far from concensus either.
But to a different point, the award is for set of the year. Not collector of the year, best home grown set of the year or the like. How he (or anyone else) obtained the cards is not mentioned in the title. I understand how much time and energy goes into building a set card by card and trying to perfect it but how does that effect the actual card set? For a person working on 300 or more sets, picking up a #1 set is literally nothing more than someone picking up a "top pop" card from the HOF set. Most of us here don't think in terms of spending hundreds of thousands a year but there are those that do and they even more. The awards don't mean the same and both the puzzle and the pieces are a completely different size. In fact, I would guess if you are collecting 100+ sets, card by card may not even be possible due to the time constraints.
So I agree not maybe my first choice but I do not believe that the source will matter for this award. Maybe there should be a home grown set HOF whereStonegate and Mantlefan would still qualify even though they do not own the cards any longer.
I have now put in print some level of defense for MOSH. I must be swotching to the dark side.
Darth Fuzz

wolfbear · June 21, 2007 1:55AM

Just got back from a couple of weeks vacation in Germany
where I was completely out of touch as opposed to my usual mostly out of touch with reality.

Thanks for all the accolades guys!
It means one he11 of a lot more coming from my fellow collectors than any award from CU would.

As for MOSH getting an award for the 1960 set, I have just one word to say : RIDICULOUS.

When you go to the set you see that it hasn't got a single scan
which really doesn't matter because the set is closed for viewing.

So what do we have here to look at?
Not even a list of grades for the individual cards. Just one line saying MOSH with a few numbers on it.

Pathetic! Closed sets shouldn't even be considered for awards! Ask me and I'll tell you how I really feel about this ...

thefootballcardstore · June 21, 2007 2:05PM

How do you really feel wolfbear??? (had to ask)

I'll agree and disagree at the same time. I think that MOSH's 64 Philly set is better overall, better than even the 1960 Topps set. The 64 Philly set would have been my pick the last few years, even while it was owned by mantlefan. But it's hard to argue about any of the top sets out there, they all have their merits, and I guess when we have our own industry leading 3rd party authentication companies we can make our own choices. Until then I congratulate all the winners in all the categories.

The 60 set is just as competitive as any other; mantlefan was paying $1k plus on some of those low pop PSA 9s before he decided to throw in the towel. Many of the low pops still go $300 to $500 each. As for the all of the other gripes, the award criteria is based on quality of the set - not how it was acquired, not who owned it previously, not if it has pretty pictures to display, but overall quality, content and difficultly (and expense as it’s referred to many times in the award descriptions).

The awards are based very little on emotional factors, or else I think we'd see a whole different variety of winners. The fact is that these awards are just a snapshot in time and I wouldn’t want to be in PSA’s shoes because inevitably, with the wide range of sets PSA must choose from, you not be pleasing a majority of the people in most cases.

For better or for worse, a special congratulation to all the football winners this year:

Craig L. Froehlich (Fro's 57's) - 1957 Topps Basic Set - Best Vintage Football Set of the Year (pre-1960)
Dedication exemplified, the heart and soul set of the 50s!

Museum of Sports History - 1960 Topps - Best Vintage Football Set of the Year (1960-1971)
A remarkable GPA for such an early year and substantial lead to boot!

Bumchex - 1975 Topps - Best Modern Football Set of the Year (1972 to present)
A steller collection of semi-modern stars and rookies!

Jon Isaacson (Fight4oldDC) - NFL Hall of Fame Rookies - Best Overall Specialty Set of the Year
A noteworthy effort and collection built with fury and heart!

David Kjeer (Short Print Nightmare) - 1952 Bowman Large Football HOF Set
One of the toughest sets in football!

May each of you continue to build upon your successes!

Best 1960-1971 football set of the year?

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