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Comparison of a real ANACS slab to a fake ANACS slab.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
The real deal:
Chinese counterfeit:
Note the difference in the font.
Russ, NCNE
Chinese counterfeit:
Note the difference in the font.
Russ, NCNE
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Comments
Wouldn't that make it more attractive to a buyer?
My first thought was that they were just covering up the fact that this is a problem slab by not showing the label -- why wouldyou self slab, and then list "cleaned" or something?
Are we sure ANACS hasn't played around with font changes, etc, as they've changed ownership?
Rex
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The real deal appears to be 'sans-serif' on the big 'A', while the fake has the serif style. Cool.
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i>Are we sure ANACS hasn't played around with font changes, etc, as they've changed ownership? >>
They've made lots of changes. But, this is a comparison of a recent real ANACS problem holder with a fake ANACS problem holder.
Russ, NCNE
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<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
whoa! who you callin' a big A-Hole!?
<< <i>Is this issue related to the 'old style' ANACS holders only...or are other generation ANACS holders also compromised? >>
So far it's only fake recent problem holders that have shown up. The small white with the blue print label.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
And the "close C" variety.
<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
Mark, you don't often come out with a zinger, but that one was great
(true as well, but the way you worded it is classic
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I'm not saying any of you are wrong, as I certainly don't know, but I just don't know how you're so sure, either...
It mostly seems counterintuitive to me that someone would go to the trouble of creating a fake, and then either (1) label it as a problem, or (2) hide the grade. Both of these steps seem to negate much of the reason for creating the fake slab in the first place...
Rex
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<< <i>I really don't see a difference. >>
<< <i>How do we know that they didn't just switch label suppliers at some point in the last x months. Maybe these are both legit slabs. >>
You may be right. If you want I'll give you the link to the auction for the second one and you can buy it. You could probably get a great deal.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I suppose they choose ANACS because they lack on-line cert lookup? >>
Same thing I was thinking.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>It mostly seems counterintuitive to me that someone would go to the trouble of creating a fake, and then either (1) label it as a problem, or (2) hide the grade. >>
It's much easier to duplicate the reverse label on the problem slabs. And, not all of the auctions had the grades hidden. Several of the ones that have been shut down by eBay didn't.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>How do we know that they didn't just switch label suppliers at some point in the last x months. Maybe these are both legit slabs. >>
You may be right. If you want I'll give you the link to the auction for the second one and you can buy it. You could probably get a great deal.
Russ, NCNE >>
LOL! I'm not THAT curious!
Rex
They do offer a population reprt, it's free to sign up.
<< <i>
<< <i>I suppose they choose ANACS because they lack on-line cert lookup? >>
Same thing I was thinking.
Russ, NCNE >>
If someone faked a PCGS slab, it would be simple to go through the Set registry and find a valid cert number that would lookup as desired.
Rex
<< <i>If someone faked a PCGS slab, it would be simple to go through the Set registry and find a valid cert number that would lookup as desired. >>
Doable, yes, but more work. You'd probably have to go hunting through submissions that the public could view.
Great job Russ.
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
<< <i><<I suppose they choose ANACS because they lack on-line cert lookup?>>
They do offer a population reprt, it's free to sign up. >>
That would be useless for verifying the authenticity of a cert number. With PCGS one can just plug the number in and check it. I think NGC has the same thing, but you have to be a paid member.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>If someone faked a PCGS slab, it would be simple to go through the Set registry and find a valid cert number that would lookup as desired. >>
The registry does not display cert numbers.
Russ, NCNE
Would it be reasonable to assume Anacs will have this feature, in the future?
<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
Just so I have this straight... the real ANACS is the big A hole?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Big A hole versus small A hole (in the center). >>
Just so I have this straight... the real ANACS is the big A hole? >>
You guys are killing me!
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
<< <i>I really don't see a difference. >>
Focus, man. The spacing between letters A-N-A-C-S on the counterfeit holder is much tighter than on the genuine holder. Note how the right foot of the second A appears to be under the spine of the C, whereas on the genuine holder, the right foot of the second A has open space above it.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
As I type this, there is 1 hour left in the auction for a 1878-S trade dollar with the bidding currently at $36.
The ad copy says "ALL COINS GUARANTEED GENUINE" and of course the seller in China wouldn't lie. He goes on to say " I got these coins from Beijing BaoGuoShi---the biggest world coin-communicate center in China. All the coins are guarantee to be true."
I'd be tempted to get this just to see the quality of the fake trade dollar and ANACS slab.
-Fuzz
EDITED TO ADD: Just after I posted it, the auction was removed. However I still had it up on the screen so I'm going to post the text and pictures.
<< <i>1878s USA Trade Dollar I got these coins from Beijing BaoGuoShi---the biggest world coin-communicate center in China. All the coins are guarantee to be true.
ALL COINS GUARANTEED GENUINE
It is extremely rare to have the high degree collects and keep the worth a work! The opportunity that do not miss the winning it.
Shipping Information:
We provide the best service and ship our good quality items all over the world. the shipping costs are very reasonable. (the shipping including Handling Fee and Wrapper Fee).
We EVER DID NOT make any benefits on the shipping fee.
E M S Express(with tracking number):$ 25.00 (4-7 days toyour place!) )
Shipping insurance :$3.00 >>
i welcome our new chinese slab making overlords.
the coin world was becoming way to boring with these
TPGs having all the fun.
<< <i>this fake slab thing has really gotten you all into a frenzy. i welcome our new chinese slab making overlords. >>
This really just means that coin collecting is hitting the mainstream which some people do welcome. Mainstream things like computer software, DVDs, CDs, etc. have been counterfeited for a long time. Some of these items have come up in discussions with China. Counterfeit Microsoft software even comes with certificates and holograms. Coin collecting is getting popular folks!
As for the certificate look up helping to prevent counterfeiting, Say I have a roll or more of fake 1889 CC dollars F to VF. How difficult would it be to find a couple of slabs with genuine coins in the same grade range and make say ten fake slabs with that same serial number? As long as I am not dumber enough to try and unload them all in one place it would probably not be noticed. The grade is low enough at it probably won't be a registry problem, and anyone who checks the number on the online lookup will find that the number is real and "matches" the coin. You can even get a real one and keep cracking and resubmitting it to generate new numbers you can use for your fakes. (Five to ten fakes for every real number.) You can probably keep that up for some time before some one actually finds two coins with the same number at the same time.
Veteran
Posts: 855
Joined: Jan 2007
A lapse of memory or morality?
<< <i>Although there are differences pointed out in some great photo detective work by Russ, I think they look similar enough to fool most people. This is a concern. >>
It sure was good enough to fool me...
<< <i>I think the reason they chose to fake the problem ANACS slabs is because most if not all of the fake coins that have been coming out of China look like they have problems. Damaged, cleaned etc. You take your typical fake trade dollar and put it into a PCGS slab or an NGC slab and alarm bells are going to go off simply because it obviously isn't a problem free coin. But in a problem coin ANACS slab it looks like it belongs there.
As for the certificate look up helping to prevent counterfeiting, Say I have a roll or more of fake 1889 CC dollars F to VF. How difficult would it be to find a couple of slabs with genuine coins in the same grade range and make say ten fake slabs with that same serial number? As long as I am not dumber enough to try and unload them all in one place it would probably not be noticed. The grade is low enough at it probably won't be a registry problem, and anyone who checks the number on the online lookup will find that the number is real and "matches" the coin. You can even get a real one and keep cracking and resubmitting it to generate new numbers you can use for your fakes. (Five to ten fakes for every real number.) You can probably keep that up for some time before some one actually finds two coins with the same number at the same time. >>
Very good point...