Guess the grade - help a newbie on vintage grades!

Charlie9

I rarely if ever send in any vintage cards for grading but thanks to this months $5 special I figured I'd take a look at what I had to round out a submission for this month. I have these 6 cards below but all have some flaws and I'm just not sure what to expect on grades for vintage since I am so used to just looking for absolute perfection with modern issues. Any help you can offer would be appreciated so I can figure out if it's worth it including any of these in my submission. By the way, I'm a newbie posting scans too so I hope they turn out OK. Thanks!

nightcrawler

Nice looking cards there, I'd say 7s and up.

earlycalguy

I'd say 6 or 7 on most. the alou looks like it could be a factory miscut and if so may not grade. is the card a rectangle or does it bow out on the top right side?

nam812

Without holding them in my hands, the football cards look like 6's and 7's, and the Haddix looks like it is a lock 7, possible 8. The Alou doesnt look like a factory miscut to me, only a slight tilting, but there is something cutting across his mouth that would concern me, and possibly make me not submit him.

CDsNuts

I think you're in the 6-7 wheelhouse with all of them. Maybe a 5 on the Tubbs.

Lee

shagrotn77

Could be 7's across the board, or there could be an 8 or 2 thrown in. The Bednarik looks rather 8ish.

envoy98

Based on the 60's I have, they are borderline 6/7 on a couple (Tubbs & Brown). The rest look like 7/8 quality to me. Tough to tell from a scan though.

onlyanumber

Football cards--all not graded, evidence of trimming or factory miscut.

Haddix 6

Alou 6 or 7

But then again I'm extremely harsh when it comes to grading and hence I send in less and less cards myself every month.

Carew29

7
7
8
8
7
8

samspop

All in the 7 range.

I agree that the line running through the middle of the Alou may cause some concern. May come back as a 7MK.

Good luck.

perkdog

Other than the Alou, (which is very nice other than other than that line) all should grade out at 7+
from the scans, best of luck, great cards!

cardbender

Nice cards! Football card's look like PSA 7's, with a possibility for 8's depending on how some corners look under glass. Bednarik= 8. Haddix = 8. Alou= 7, one back corner from an 8 but still a sharp looking card. Let us know how you do on them.

Good luck!

Rich

stevek

Very nice 6 type cards.

ldferg

6s with the haddix being a 7.

cardbender

You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me.

stevek

<< <i>You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me. >>




They're 6's plain and simple, perhaps one 7 - you gotta presume that scans virtually always make any card look better than what it actually is.

cardbender

The back of the 1960 Football cards are not miscut. This is how many of them look. This is normal cutting. A white edge can show on the card's reverse and they still can still receive 8's and 9's. I have many in slabs w/o qualifiers to prove this.

cardbender

<< <i>

<< <i>You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me. >>




They're 6's plain and simple, perhaps one 7 - you gotta presume that scans virtually always make any card look better than what it actually is. >>



No offense Steve, but I'm sure glad you're not grading my latest sub. at psa. I too like strict grading, but they look better than 6's to me. I understand flat scanning can make a card appear somewhat better. They can also make junk look good too depending on the size of the scan.

CDsNuts

I don't think 6 is such a harsh grade. Let's run them down:

- Tubbs- 70/30 centering LR and two fairly worn left corners. Could bottom left on back be recolored? If not, I say low end 6.
- Sample- Bottom left corner looks worn and crushed (maybe by a screwdown). PSA does not like this. Top corners both have slight wear, but more on the left. Solid 6, could be a 7.
- Brown- All corners show wear and flaking around the edges. Solid 6.
- Bednarik- Slight wear on all corners, and a little flaking all around. High end 6, could be a 7.
- Haddix- Looks like it's been in a screwdown- all four corners have some wear but look flattened, especially the bottom left. 6, with an outside shot at a 7.
- Alou- no clue with that wierd line in the middle, but I'd say a 5 or 6 with that top right corner.

If you sent these all in, I would say you get a couple 7's and the rest 6's.

Lee

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me. >>




They're 6's plain and simple, perhaps one 7 - you gotta presume that scans virtually always make any card look better than what it actually is. >>



No offense Steve, but I'm sure glad you're not grading my latest sub. at psa. I too like strict grading, but they look better than 6's to me. I understand flat scanning can make a card appear somewhat better. They can also make junk look good too depending on the size of the scan. >>



If looking at past threads such as these, the grading of the "regulars" on the board here is extremely accurate. Just comes from a lot of buying and selling experience of PSA cards.

nearmint

I'll guess 7's across the board.

Buccaneer

Lee is correct. Some of you apparently do not have much experience in grading and submission, esp. if you think that they are all 7s with some 8s. Just take a look at the corners from the back. There are some 7s in the there but also some 6s. I go through about 100 vintage cards a week on the average and I have seen an awful lot of EX, EXMT and NM cards and these fall comfortably in that range.

Charlie9

Thanks for everyones input. As I said I rarely send in vintage cards so that's exactly why I turned to you guys that deal more with that stuff. I decided to send in all but the Tubbs and Alou so I'll try to update when the submission pops (monthly special so it could take quite awhile. Thanks again guys!

cardbender

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;ih=018&amp;sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&amp;viewitem=&amp;item=280122109507&amp;rd=1&amp;rd=1


Speaking of grading, check out this Csonka RC. The front looks nice and sharp, the back however is miscut. Now how is this an 8 fellows?

cardbender

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me. >>




They're 6's plain and simple, perhaps one 7 - you gotta presume that scans virtually always make any card look better than what it actually is. >>



No offense Steve, but I'm sure glad you're not grading my latest sub. at psa. I too like strict grading, but they look better than 6's to me. I understand flat scanning can make a card appear somewhat better. They can also make junk look good too depending on the size of the scan. >>



If looking at past threads such as these, the grading of the "regulars" on the board here is extremely accurate. Just comes from a lot of buying and selling experience of PSA cards. >>



Yeah Steve, I guess I just don't have the same level of experience grading vintage as the rest of the 'regulars' on this board. I wish I could get more experience in this area. How does one go about getting that help?

Buccaneer

Buy hundreds of raw vintage cards, examine them closely, write down your grade and any remarks, then submit them and compare.

Buy hundreds of graded vintage cards, examine them closely amd see the pattern.

I have gotten to the point (on EX, EXMT and NM) cards that all I need is a very bright light and a little patience, with the loupe only for double checking NM corners. If you hold the card at arm's length under the light and see *anything* wrong with a corner (e.g., slightly bent), then it's EXMT. If you got 3 of those corners, then it's EX. This is assuming centering and surface fall within the specs. One of the things that I keep being surprised at is how off-centered NM cards go and still be NM (up to 75/25).

CDsNuts

bender, the best way to accurately grade cards is this: You pick up the card and hold it up to the brightest light you can find. Then you want to switch to a blacklight and look at the card at every angle for creases and/or stains, front and back. Then you want to take a jeweler's loupe with 15x magnification and scrutinize the edges and corners for inconsistencies. Next you want to take a good look at the photo to see if the register is clear. After that, you want to take a scientific ruler and measure each border in three different areas to get the accurate centering. Next, you're gonna want to carefully slide the card next to a T-square and check for a diamond cut. And then finally you're going to take a ten-sided die and roll it, and whichever number comes up, that's your grade.

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

Lee


ps- I realize you've probably graded as much as or more than most of the people on these boards.

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>You guys are way too harsh on grading these cards. If they were your cards would you be happy with 6's on them? They seem all pretty solid to me. I've seen many 6's which were ragging looking. These raw cards are pretty nice to me. >>




They're 6's plain and simple, perhaps one 7 - you gotta presume that scans virtually always make any card look better than what it actually is. >>



No offense Steve, but I'm sure glad you're not grading my latest sub. at psa. I too like strict grading, but they look better than 6's to me. I understand flat scanning can make a card appear somewhat better. They can also make junk look good too depending on the size of the scan. >>



If looking at past threads such as these, the grading of the "regulars" on the board here is extremely accurate. Just comes from a lot of buying and selling experience of PSA cards. >>



Yeah Steve, I guess I just don't have the same level of experience grading vintage as the rest of the 'regulars' on this board. I wish I could get more experience in this area. How does one go about getting that help? >>




Try this for starters:

http://www.seanet.com/~brucemo/card_articles/grading.htm

cardbender

<< <i>bender, the best way to accurately grade cards is this: You pick up the card and hold it up to the brightest light you can find. Then you want to switch to a blacklight and look at the card at every angle for creases and/or stains, front and back. Then you want to take a jeweler's loupe with 15x magnification and scrutinize the edges and corners for inconsistencies. Next you want to take a good look at the photo to see if the register is clear. After that, you want to take a scientific ruler and measure each border in three different areas to get the accurate centering. Next, you're gonna want to carefully slide the card next to a T-square and check for a diamond cut. And then finally you're going to take a ten-sided die and roll it, and whichever number comes up, that's your grade.

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

Lee


ps- I realize you've probably graded as much as or more than most of the people on these boards. >>



Thanks Lee,
That was funny. I guess you're the only one that caught my sarcasm.

SteveK, Yeah I've seen BruceMo's grading guideline web site a few years ago. It is very informative for the uninformed. Thanks guys.

I hope Charlie gets some accurate grades on his decent cards. That's all.

Regards,
Rich

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>bender, the best way to accurately grade cards is this: You pick up the card and hold it up to the brightest light you can find. Then you want to switch to a blacklight and look at the card at every angle for creases and/or stains, front and back. Then you want to take a jeweler's loupe with 15x magnification and scrutinize the edges and corners for inconsistencies. Next you want to take a good look at the photo to see if the register is clear. After that, you want to take a scientific ruler and measure each border in three different areas to get the accurate centering. Next, you're gonna want to carefully slide the card next to a T-square and check for a diamond cut. And then finally you're going to take a ten-sided die and roll it, and whichever number comes up, that's your grade.

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

Lee


ps- I realize you've probably graded as much as or more than most of the people on these boards. >>



Thanks Lee,
That was funny. I guess you're the only one that caught my sarcasm.

SteveK, Yeah I've seen BruceMo's grading guideline web site a few years ago. It is very informative for the uninformed. Thanks guys.

I hope Charlie gets some accurate grades on his decent cards. That's all.

Regards,
Rich >>




I've contacted the powers at CU and asked them if they could consider placing you in the classification as a "regular" on the forum.