Two Serious Question Re: Beckett, BGS and Raw Card Review

JackWESQ

Two questions for the group. If they have been answered already/before, my apologies. First, has anyover ever purchased and/or otherwise obtained a Beckett Raw Card Review and submitted it to Beckett for grading? And if so, did it come back the same previously assigned Raw Card Review grade? Or did it come back with a different card? I suppose my question is, ultimately, what value, if any, does a Raw Card Review grade possess? Is it a GUARANTEE to come back, say, for example the BGS 9.5? Or is it essentially worthless? I'm sure like all opposite end questions, the answer is somewhere in between. But is it closer the guarantee or the worthless? Maybe I'm just asking for a single occasions where a RCR 9.5 came back a BGS 9.5.

Second question. The BGS "subgrade calculator." Does anyone have any insight into their system? I recall reading somewhere that no matter the subgrades, the overall grade cannot be higher than a full point above the lowest subgrade. For example, lets say the card had subgrades of 10 for centering, 10 for corners, 10 for edges, but a 1 for surface. The highest grade possible is a 2, which is one full point above the 1 for surface. Of course, we all know the overall grade is NOT simply adding the four subgrades and dividing by four. But does anyone know how exactly the final overall grade is determined.

Of course, any insight would be appreciated. Thank you.

/s/ JackWESQ

P.S. The Beckett POP Report for the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle identifies 5 at 5.0, 1 at 5.5, 5 at 6.0, 2 at 7.0 and the highest grade at 7.5. Has anyone ever seen these cards?

handyman

I think whatever the lowest grade giving on the 4 areas. They wont go higher that 1 over the lowest. Example 7 on corner and 10 on everything else. I think they will give you a 7.5 but sometimes an 8, none higher than that.

Allen

I bought a BRCR 7.5 Jordan RC. I emailed Beckett and asked them if that was the specific grade it would get. They said the card would be looked at but in most cases it is assigned that grade. I sumbitted and it got a 7.5 with the corners being a 7. I had another Jordan BGS 7 with a 6 centering.

EagleEyeKid

From what I was told and I had several friends used the RCR when they first started it. BGS would look at the card at the show and review it since they didn't set up to encapsulate it. The grade that was assigned to the RCR would be the same grade if the individual decided to get it encapsulated later and the fee was an additional $2 or $3 (not sure if true) since you already paid the big chunk for the RCR. People were buying RCR 9.5s on Ebay like crazy. That has all changed now. You are NO longer guaranteed to receive the same grade. They will look it over again and charge you whatever tier service you have chosen. So basically, their RCR is a big pile of bullch*t. There really is no reason to even have this done now. I now see people trying to sell their RCR on ebay with many getting 0 bids.

BGS grading system:

BGS final grades are determined by a simple algorithm (Al Gore disease?), which all are based on the lowest two subgrades:

If the 2nd lowest subgrade is equal to the lowest subgrade, the overall grade will be equal to the lowest subgrade. Example: 7, 8.5, 7, 8 = BGS 7.

If the 2nd lowest subgrade is 0.5 higher than the lowest subgrade, the overall grade will be equal to the 2nd lowest subgrade. Example: 7, 7.5, 8.5, 9 = BGS 7.5

If the 2nd lowest subgrade is 1.0 higher than the lowest subgrade, the overall grade will be 0.5 higher than the lowest subgrade. Example: 7, 8, 8.5, 8.5 = BGS 7.5

If the 2nd lowest subgrade is 1.5 higher (or more) than the lowest subgrade, the overall grade will be 1.0 higher than the lowest subgrade. Example: 9.5, 9.5, 9.5, 8 = BGS 9

There are instances where the 2nd lowest subgrade is 1.5 higher (or more) than the lowest subgrade, but the overall grade is only 0.5 higher than the lowest subgrade. This is the norm. However, I've had a BGS 9 with 9.5, 9.5, 9.5, and 8 surface. I do not know what is the determining factor. Maybe the grader got a hummer from the night before. I've also seen BGS 9s & BGS 9.5s with 10, 10, 10, and 8.5 surface.

This is quite simple and very easily understood once you've dropped some acid.



This is from Beckett word for word:

About Beckett Grading
How Final Grades are Determined


Here is how we do it!
The overall numerical grade is not a simple average of the four report card grades. Beckett Grading Services uses an algorithm which determines the final grade using the 4 sub grades on the front label of the card holder. The lowest overall grade is the first category to observe because it is the most obvious defect, and the lowest grade is the most heavily weighted in determining the overall grade.

Example:

Centering = 9.5
Corners = 9.5
Edges = 9
Surface = 8
Final grade = 8.5


The reason that this card received an 8.5 is that even though the Surface grade was an 8 (the lowest grade overall), the 9.5 grades on Centering and Corners were strong enough to bring it up a full point to reach the 8.5 level.

Another example:

Centering = 9.5
Corners = 9.5
Edges = 8.5
Surface = 9
Final grade = 9


Upon first glance, it may appear that this card should've received a grade different than a 9. The most this card could receive was .5 (or one-half grade) above the lowest sub-grade. The Edges were the lowest in this case, hence, the card received the overall 9 grade. Even though Centering and Corners received grades of 9.5, a key point to remember is that the minimum requirement to receive a grade of Gem Mint is to have at least three grades of 9.5 and the fourth to be no less than a 9.

Also, please note that the final grade rarely, if ever, exceeds two levels above the lowest of the four characteristic grades. For example, if a card has characteristic grades of Centering 10, Corners 6, Edges 10 and Surface 10, the final grade will be a "7" (of which is exactly two grading levels above the lowest characteristic grade).

Bosox1976

There was also a thread about a scam on raw reviews - slicing the plastic open along the edge and supergluing it back together. The Beckett seal stays intact. I'd be dubious of any expensive card still in a raw review card saver. Who wouldn't spend the extra $5 for a valuable card?

ndleo

I bought a 1994 SP Die Cut Alex Rodriguez that was graded Beckett Raw Card Review 9 before I read the story about the faked RCRs. Needless to say I was worried after I submitted to Beckett for slabbing. Even though I got it for about 80% of what it normally sells for on ebay, I was still out a lot of dough if it came back as a tampered.

The grade popped today and it is got slabbed a BGS 9. Subs are 9.5 centering, 9.5 corners, 9 edges, and 8.5 surface.

I am happy with my purchase, but I'm not sure I would do it again. I tried to get more info from Beckett on what to look for and there seems to be a media blackout about this topic.

Allen

Look for cut marks on the slab. I think the guys who got scammed big got carc-savers that were cut on the side. I am guessing they cut right in the crease of the holder and then squeezed it back together. I have said it before, Beckett pretty much gave the scammers a crate of ammo and a trunk full of guns with the Beckett RCR system and "holders".