1995 $25 Gold Eagle PCGS MS69 pop 3/0 - SOLD!

Datentype

If anybody is interested, please email me at mdilauro@mailcity.com

Thanks,
Mark

pmh1nic

Just to put things in perspective...out of the 22 coins graded by PCGS 3 coins (approximately 13%) are MS-69. With a total mintage of 53,474 we could estimate that there are about 7,000 MS-69 coins out there. We could be very conservative and say that only 10% of the mintage will be grade which leaves us with a MS-69 population of approximately 700 coins.

BTW, offers to sell should be posted on the buy, sell, trade board . PCGS rules not mine (although I do like the rule).

Datentype

You've got to be kidding!? What kind of math is that? What about the thousands that have been looked at and are not worth submitting? i agree that there will be more made and if it's so easy, you can probably pop out a bunch of coins worth several hundred dollars and check your email from Hawaii.

RegistryCoin

Now, THAT is what this great board is for. Buy/sell/talk about/if it has to do with reg, sets, it is cool here. Congratulations on your sale. It looked like it took less than one hour to off that puppy. Congratulations, again. WE'RE OPEN FOR BUSINESS AGAIN. It's good to see everything back to normal. (its good that wasn't a wc sale)

pmh1nic

Thousands looked at and not worth submitting??? We're talking about commemorative coins that are minted and handled with special care by the Mint. We're not talking Kennedy Halfs or coins from State Quarter rolls but coins that are relatively expensive. I'd also like to know who has had the opportunity to examine thousands of these coins.

BTW, I may have extended the U.S. Coin Forum policy to the U.S. Registry Set Forum. If I was incorrect in stating that the "no selling" policy is in effect here I apologize. I lose track of where I am as I'm crawling back and forth between boards (a little inside joke between me and Wondercoin).

Datentype

Hey pmh 1nic, this is the from the front page description of the message board:

PCGS Set Registry Forum
For discussions about PCGS registry sets - building them, buying them, selling them, collecting them.

This sale was definitely fair game! Wanna buy some lottery tickets?

I still say that if it's so easy, why don't you do it?

RegistryCoin

Btw, nothing "inside" about it. Just open your eyes after you bump into a new forum.

dbldie55

For what it is worth, it is a bullion coin, not a commemorative. It is worth 1/2 spot (around $278) + a few bucks to me, but I was not buying. What everyone forgets is that when Mitch whined to create a new board to run a business on, his statement was World Class Registry Sets would be allowed to be sold. Perhaps this is one of the World Class Sets, I would not know. It seems that coins minted last week, with current pops in the hundreds are considered World Class to the sellers.

Read the description:
"For discussions about PCGS registry sets - building them, buying them, selling them, collecting them."

Is discussing the selling of them the same as selling them? It is nothing new here, with the exception of the last few days, most threads on this forum are selling something. Any coin in a PCGS holder is a registry quality coin as far as the registry is concerned. When someone from outside the clique lists some, they get ridiculed too. I see they just post their World Class Coins (truly world class, even without the plastic) on the Buy-Sell forum now.

For now, everyone on this forum accepts all of the selling threads as the standard.

Datentype

I Luv this stuff Man!

pmh1nic

As for the policy regarding buying and selling I stand corrected. At my age with all of this crawling back and forth between forums I lose track of where I am .

As for the 1995 GAE I've got no interest in modern coinage, especially modern bullion coinage. That said it's not a matter of one man's effort in searching and submitting coins because it's the collective effort on the part of many collectors/dealers that accounts for the majority of submissions for grading. The odds against winning the lottery are vastly greater than making an MS-69 1995 $25 SAE but people win every week. Those 50,000+ coins are out there. All of them are relatively high grade MS coins which received special handling when they were manufactured and packaged. Making more 69's is just a matter of time. The numbers don't lie. Even if you drop that down to 1% of the total mintage submitted and the same percentage making 69 we're still talking approximately 70 coins (you might even have a few 70's in there some where). We'll check back in 2007 . Mark it on your calander .

And I stand corrected again, bullion not commemorative.

keithdagen

pmh1nic,

Bullion is actually hard to get in high grade consistently. The reason for this is that bullion has to go through an authorized bullion distributor first. Coin dealers are not the first to get their hands on the coins. A majority of the coins go to brokerage type firms to be held for their client's trading positions. Very little makes it to the coin dealers, who then sell to common folk like us. Also, dealers are only able to get current year material or mixed material. They can't request specific dates after the Mint stops producing a current year. So getting the older pieces is not easy.

Decades from now, if the banks ever liquidate their vaults of the stored coins, look for those 69's to flood the market. Right now though, they are hard to find.

Keith

pmh1nic

keithdagen

Thanks for the education. I've only purchased one set of bullion coins (my Y2K panic purchase of a set of 2000 GAE's ). They came from a dealer nicely packaged in individual plastic coin holders encased in a wooden display case. On the conservative side I'd grade them all at least a 67 having examined them with a 10x loupe. Maybe the dealer cherrypick but I'd like to know how the Mint packages these coins for distribution to the major dealers that get them directly from the Mint? The term "bullion coin" may give some people the impression that they're just dumped in bulk bags and sent out in mass. I don't believe that's the case since ultimately many are sold to collectors as "show pieces". The Mint knows this and I believe they do afford them special processing/handling because of how they are being marketed to collectors.

Anyway, I am basing my assumption on my admittedly limited experience. BTW , NGC didn't have a pop report on the 1995 $25 but the 1996 pop is 104 in MS-69 and 6 in MS-70 and 94 1994 coins graded MS-69. O.k., o.k. I know this is the PCGS board and the opinion here that they grade more strictly but I've got to imagine that at least some of those NGC 69's and 70's might cross to PGCS 69. That said I don't believe the 3/0 PCGS pop on the 1995 is going to hold up. I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of 69's change dramatically over the next few years. Just my humble somewhat educated opinion.

keithdagen

pmh1nic,

According to my local dealer, these are shipped in bulk in plastic coin tubes, packed at the Mint. To purchase them, you have to be an authorized bullion purchaser, which I believe there are only 8 in the US. Most of them are large financial institutions. These distributors then wholesale them down the chain a couple of times until they make it to the dealers of the coins. Most of the coins are used to secure bullion purchases in IRA's, so a majority don't make it to the collector market.

My experience has been that they seem to be of nicer quality than Mint Set coins in general. I don't know if it is caused by better handling of the planchets or by better care in sealing the coins in tubes. Hard to say. The ones that make it into the marketplace are nice quality, it's just getting them into the market that isn't easy. I've had pretty good success with them. I occasionally buy some from a wholesaler direct and certify them. I think my current rate is about 50% MS-69, 35% MS-68, and 15% MS-67.

Based on that, the odds of the populations going up are good. The crux lies that most of the coins that are not sold during the current year are placed into the banking system. My wholesaler I use will let me buy one of two ways, 2002 coins, or 1986-2001 mixed date. I can probably guarantee that I get some 69's, but I can't guarantee that I can get one from 1995 without buying a lot.

Keith

Datentype

Keith, thanks for the education. We all can benefit from more knowledge. PM me if the mixed stuff is looking nice and what it might cost me through your source.

Thanks,
Mark

dbldie55

So it looks like finding the physical coins may be the hardest part. As these are bullion coins, come in tubes, and are rarely handled for these reasons. Once you find them, they should be in close to "as struck" condition. With that in mind, then I would suspect that many more in this condition exist, just need some reason to bring them out. I would think that many of them are in possession of people who bought them for their intended purpose and have no idea that they could ever be more valuable. Time will tell if that thinking ever changes.

keithdagen

dbldie55,

You are right, finding the coins is the hard part. The best comparison are the treasury hoards of Morgan dollars, except that here, the qulaity is most likely very high for all coins. Stored in tubes means little movement, so no damage that way.

When you buy gold as an investment in an IRA with a brokerage house, the brokerage firm buys the rights to American Eagles. If the broker is large enough, they may have physical possession of the coins, but most likely, they secure the rights to someone else's hoard. These will sit in bank vaults until people decide to sell off the precious metals in their IRA's, and then may be dispersed to the markets.

Keith

Dabigkahuna

Just from my own experiance I have found these GAE's do not travel well in those mint tubes. The high ponts on the relief are subject to rubbing with the coin on top and you find marks very similar to the old St. Gaudens double eagles. The half OZ. eagles that I have checked also seem to have the worst marks of all the denominations. I can't say for sure but it does seem that these are all machine handled since you also will find rim marks in the fields from here the other coins have hit them as they were placed in the tubes. Halves are the most difficult to find in pristine grades. I wonder if PCGS will add the proof die errors for the 99' $10 and $5 gold eagles?


Larry
Dabigkahuna

pmh1nic

Two questions for the bullion experts. Are the GAE's the same relief as the St. Gaudens Double Eagles? Are they the same relief as the SAE's?


Just curious because the coins in the one Mint tube of SAE's I purchased were mostly 67's ~ 68's with 2 or 3 that had a shot at 69 (IMHO). I'm going to guess that the St. Gaudens Double Eagles have a slightly higher relief than the GAE's based on the many Saints I've seen with rub on the breast and knee.

Anyway, thanks for the information. I really appreciate being able to tap into the vast collective knowledge on this board.

keithdagen

pmh1nic,

I really have only messed with the 1/10 oz GAE's, so based on that I can't really answer your question about relief. Too small to tell. The relief seems to be comparative to the Saints though. The reverse of course is different, and may affect how stacks of GAE's wear vs stacks of Saints.

The SAE's see a lot more travel than the GAE's and PAE's because of affordability. I think that a dealer can buy a mint-sealed box of 500 pieces, which translates to 25 tubes of 20. I know that my dealer places them in flips for general sale, and picking through them, finding a 69 isn't always easy. The mint tubes aren't as sturdy as the kind you get at the coin shops, so I bet many of the dealers who resell them change the tube out. The more handling of course, the more likely the wear.

Keith