Found-out more information about a coin...

TwoKopeiki

I have started researching this coin when I bought it over a year ago. The eagle/cactus combination looked Mexican, so I took a chance in the last few minutes of the auction. Looking in Krause I found a similar coin listed under “Multiple Countermarked Coinage” during the period of Mexican War of Independence. However, the host coin in Krause appears to be a 2 Reales piece and the one in my possession is the size of 1 Real. At this point I decided to contact some big names in Mexican Numismatics to help me with research. Out of 4 different folks I sent e-mails to only Don Canaparo from Hawaii answered:



<< <i>hello, looked at the photo. i was wondering what you needed to know about this. i'm familiar with the c/s's on 1 & 2 reales. this eagle c/s of course also appears on 8 reales and actually is S.C.M.J. in full. i'm assuming your example 's c/s's are struck and therefore genuine. the most common accompanying c/s for the eagle of this type is the ornate M.d.S. i personally doubt the C.M.S. c/s from the same period. the eagle i believe is a war of independence era c/s as is the M.d.S., the C.M.S. appears more modern, a hacienda or municipal in the same region and later period perhaps? as always it's hard to say conclusively about that. i hope this helps in some way. sincerely-don >>



I took that to at least confirm the authenticity. I left it at that until recently, when I was able to obtain more information from a book I picked-up from a local dealer: Pradeau’s “Numismatic History of Mexico” under “Insurgent Counterstamps” -> “Military Commanders”:



<< <i>Two silver coins, two-reales size, found in the collection of Mr. Frank I. Liveright of New York City, are unmistakably Insurgent provisionals. Each seems to be a two-reales piece of Charles IV worn smooth and revalidated by counterstamping.

The stamp on the obverse side is the same on both coins – a circular counterstamp, eleven millimetres in diameter, with the typical Mexican eagle standing up on a cactus. Around the margin, below, are two olive branches forming a semi-circle. In the upper right quadrant, in the space between the left wing and the margin of the stamp, there are three letters: S.C.M. which the author interprets as meaning Soberano Congreso Mexicano (Sovereign Mexican Congress).

On the reverse, one specimen has the initials C.M.S. in Roman type letters which could be interpreted to mean Comandancia Militar Suriana. The other piece has a partially obliterated oval stamp with letters M.d.S. resting upon a brace which points downward; these letters undoubtedly stand for Militar del Sur in which the word comandancia is implied. The translation of both interpretations is Office of the Military commander of the South.

The compiler believes these counterstamps were used prior to December 1815, by some insurgent chieftain, not Morelos, but one whose field of operations was also in the Southern part of New Spain and who chose to accept the sovereignty of the congress.

This conclusion is based upon the fact that the National Congress appointed by Hidalgo in 1811, and re-organized by Morelos, ceased to exist about the middle of December 1815. While the Congress was replaced by the Council of Jaujillo, this also stopped functioning January 16, 1816, when the triumvirate, known as Departmental Convention, took it’s place only to fail within a few days. Thus from January 1816, to September 1821, the supreme command did not rest upon a group of men, but rather upon individual insurgent leaders who acted as independent units.

The writer arrives at the conclusion that these pieces cannot be attributed to Don Vicente Guerrero, who from 1816 to 1821 was the foremost southern leader, because:

1. This coinage could not have been issued in the name of a Congress that had ceased to exist.
2. Guerrero’s few reverses and many victories over the royalist forces kept his men and himself well supplied with funds and war materials, consequently, there was no need for provisional coinage.
3. In all the works consulted not a single historical reference was found stating or implying that General Guerrero had to resort to necessity coinage of his own. >>



My search for truth continues, but today I feel that I came one more step closer to it. Hope this wasn't too boring for you guys (and gals) - I just always enjoy a good hunt

~Roman

clarkbar04

Thanks for sharing, that is the exact opposite of boring. You really have a nice conversation piece there!

brogine

Very good to read. On a perfectly trivial note, 'reales' is the plural of 'real', not 'reale'.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>Very good to read. On a perfectly trivial note, 'reales' is the plural of 'real', not 'reale'. >>



Thanks for the heads-up I always mess those up.

Iosephus

Great information; this is what makes numismatics so interesting!

theboz11

lordmarcovan

<< <i>However, the host coin in Krause appears to be a 2 Reales piece and the one in my possession is the size of 1 Real >>

Funny, from the photograph it looked more like a larger copper or bronze coin than a relatively small silver one. Of course, I see the silvery color now- it was just my eyes playing tricks on me.