What is the downside to keeping a few of the best coins, forever, when you sell a completed series?

TahoeDale

I have been contemplating the sale of my coin collection, in the near future, but cannot see parting with a few of the coins that have been difficult to acquire, and are so rare and beautiful.

Is a sale likely to be less than successful, if the keys are missing? Like the 1901-S and 13-S in the Barber quarters, or the micro-o and the 1904-s in the halves?

All are in high grades and it would be a sad day to lose them.

I still feel sad re the sale of the 1885 lib nickel in MS PCGS 67. There are 4 or 5 capped bust halves that I cannot let go, without feelings of desertion.

I don't see trying to buy lesser grades to insert in their place.

So, will the total set prices suffer when it is incomplete?

tradedollarnut

Once upon a time I was tempted to sell my seated dollar collection and just keep a few of the nicest examples as souveneirs. I think that concept wasn't so bad from my point of view, but perhaps not so nice from the buyer's...

RYK

Tough call. In theory, the coins will sell individually for what they are worth. In practice, great sets create a buzz, and a lot of the buzz is from the better dates. Personally, I would keep my favorites and sell the rest, though I typically will behave in ways that enhance my enjoyment as a collector, to the detriment of my financial performance. So, do the opposite of what I say!

I agree with not throwing in a few impostors. It will make all the rest look bad. Better to leave the spaces in the catalog open.

BAJJERFAN

Are you selling the set intact or piecing it out? There are probably many collectors who could never afford the key dates, but who would like to get their hands on a real collector's common coins.

Cladiator

I think Jay might have some good input on this one. I believe he just did exactly what you propose, sell off the majority of an excellent collection and consolidate into just a few extraordinary pieces.

GAT

None as I see it, I have been selling off my Morgans but will never sell the 1885-CC GSA or 1890-CC PL.

coinbuf

Tough call, I tend to think RYK is correct if you sell a set minus the keys (I'm assuming your thinking your going the auction house route) the house may have a tougher time creating marketing thus reducing your chances for strong bidding. Having the important coin in the sale should bring out stronger wallets and improve overall sales, in theory that is.

Chris

TwoSides2aCoin

Methinks you should focus on your box of twenty with the few you just can't get rid of as "starter" pieces, Dale

As for the set suffering because of a few "keys" or "BEST PIECES" missing, it doesn't matter. As RYK stated, each piece will stand on it's own merit. When it's over and done with, they all get broken up anyway. So, keep what you will regret getting rid of and do the "20".

Joe

PonyExpress8

Dale,

An interesting question. Traditionally from my obversations a completed set usually is sold as a set by auction such as your beautiful Liberty Head Nickels awhile back but I sure can understand wanting to keep a select coin or two that is a personal favorite to retain.

Ultimately you should do what makes you happy and if that is to continue to be a conservator of select pieces I sure can support your reasons.

Rest assured if you do decide to sell some of your Barber Halves I would be keenly interested in acquiring to add to the set I am trying to build. Any I would be fortunate to acquire at sale would be special to me since they were once a part of your great set.

I suppose the absence of the micro O or 04-S might reduce the drawing power of the sale possibly. After all selling the special keys often brings out the record prices and I suppose more potential buyers. But let's say you held back those two coins, what would a Heritage or other auction house think about the impact of the sale. Alternatively, a private consignment sale may be effective as well utilizing a well known dealer for select pieces sans a couple of the keys.

An interesting thing to ponder and consider. But any buyer of coins in any of the sets you have built would be just as excited to obtain a high quality piece just as you were for each you purchased. And passing on something special to another collector who appreciates the pedigree and history of the coin itself is special too. Best wishes to you and my support for whichever way you decide.

Glenn

TahoeDale

First, thanks for the input and personal thoughts.

Glenn, I do plan to sell the Barber halves some day soon, and I would be honored for you to get a few. I just want to keep a couple that were a long time finding.

Completing a series that is over 70 coins is a lifetime achievement, and this holds true whether the average grade is 30 or 65. But letting them all go is an emotional loss.

I think I am leaning towards holding on to the special ones. I remember Bruce Scher lamenting the loss of many of his great proof barbers, and 3CN's, and I'm sure there are other collectors who have felt the void.

So the 1794 half in 61, 1796 half in 64, and the Eliasberg 1892-O micro-o in 68 are staying home. Same for the 01-S quarter in 65, and 13-S in 66.

TDN, the trade dollar we have both owned is still a possible.

RegistryCoin

If desired, I'd keep a few only if those coins kept didn't reduce my ability to get the best deal with the auction house (ie., percentage, buy-back, placement/mktg., etc.).
I would also double-check my intention to keep those few "forever", and if I may not actually keep them "forever", would those few help the sale of the others now? and visa versa?
ps. edited to add: This is assuming that you have determined that you will do better selling coins individually at auction rather than selling the set in it's entirety.

Longacre

It might depend on who is the buyer. In a private sale, the buyer might want to purchase the entire collection, including the key dates, especially if the keys are nice and almost impossible to find. If the coins are being sold at auction, maybe the auction house can put less of an emphasis on the fact that the collection is complete except for x, y, and z key dates, and focus on the quality of the other coins in the collection. Personally, I would keep the real monster coins, especially if they are hard to replace. In theory, the other coins can be replaced eventually, but nice keys are hard to come by.

ColonialCoinUnion

What's the downside?

Well, I guess that without your trophy coins your collection will receive less interest and attention than it otherwise would have - which will equate to lower prices on your other items or, if you consign it to auction, a less favorable deal with the auction house.

To use an extreme example, I wonder what the level of interest in the Eliasberg sale would have been had the top 20 coins been removed before the sale.

Given the depth and breadth of the material, there would still have been plenty of bidders, but surely some of the luster would have been gone.

BAJJERFAN

I guess it would also depend on how much the extra $$$ would really mean to you.

oldcameoproofsguy

I don't believe that I have ever heard of a dealer giving a premium just because a set was complete. Unless a dealer is selling a complete set on consignment; he/she is just selling coins. If you want to keep some, then I say go ahead and do it.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I don't believe that I have ever heard of a dealer giving a premium just because a set was complete. Unless a dealer is selling a complete set on consignment; he/she is just selling coins. If you want to keep some, then I say go ahead and do it. >>



I think you are missing the point. Many dealers buy collections specifically to obtain the best coins in it - you know, the ones that are "difficult to acquire, and are so rare and beautiful".

BAJJERFAN

He doesn't say whether or not he plans to sell thru a dealer or an auction house like Heritage.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>He doesn't say whether or not he plans to sell thru a dealer or an auction house like Heritage. >>



It doesn't matter. In either case the level of interest will be lower and the deal which can be made for the remaining items will by definition be less favorable if the best coins are removed.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't believe that I have ever heard of a dealer giving a premium just because a set was complete. Unless a dealer is selling a complete set on consignment; he/she is just selling coins. If you want to keep some, then I say go ahead and do it. >>



I think you are missing the point. Many dealers buy collections specifically to obtain the best coins in it - you know, the ones that are "difficult to acquire, and are so rare and beautiful". >>



This is true. I bought the entire $5M Share Collection of Seated and Trade dollars specifically to get a handful of irreplaceable coins. I had to sell off what I didn't want and expose myself to large losses just to assure myself of getting what I needed for my set. If I could have avoided that risk and just purchased the coins I wanted, I would have - likewise if those specific coins had been withheld from the set, I would not have purchased a thing.

However, there's nothing to prevent a person from putting the entire set in auction and reserving a few of one's favorites a tad high...

RYK

Duckor did a masterful job selling his Indian $10's. IIRC, he sold the bulk of them at the 2006 CSNS, for what looked to be strong money, and then nearly one year later sold the 20-S for mega-strong money. He could have kept the latter, if he wanted.

I like TDN's idea.

oldcameoproofsguy

<< <i>However, there's nothing to prevent a person from putting the entire set in auction and reserving a few of one's favorites a tad high... >>

Baley

However, there's nothing to prevent a person from putting the entire set in auction and reserving a few of one's favorites a tad high

there you go.

RYK

<< <i>However, there's nothing to prevent a person from putting the entire set in auction and reserving a few of one's favorites a tad high

there you go. >>



The more I think about it, the more I really like that idea. Did Greg Rohan put you up to that?

TahoeDale

I tried the high reserve in the Lib nickel sale. It didn't work, and the 1885 in 67 sold for a record price.

So I guess I will just have to take the downside on the lack of a few special coins in any sale( Auction ).

Baley

try an insanely high reserve

tradedollarnut

<< <i>try an insanely high reserve >>



Nah - the potted palm reserve works better. Simply negotiate with the auction company that you may bid on and win 2 or 3 specific coins with them getting no fee on those purchases. Then bid to your heart's content. But realize that if you do this to too many, you will kill your sale - so be choosy!

I tried the high reserve in the Lib nickel sale. It didn't work, and the 1885 in 67 sold for a record price.

The best laid plans of mice and men....

oldcameoproofsguy

<< <i>Once upon a time I was tempted to sell my seated dollar collection and just keep a few of the nicest examples as souveneirs. I think that concept wasn't so bad from my point of view, but perhaps not so nice from the buyer's... >>



I have seen pics of this collection... I don't think that any dealer or buyer for that matter would be displeased with any of the coins in that collection. Obviously all were chosen with great care and any one of them would have been difficult for me to part with... not just a couple.

Zoins

Is this similar to museums keeping nice coins off the market?

TwoSides2aCoin

it's back to that box of twenty ....
Some things make perfect sense.

Bochiman

What's most important to you at this time?
Money or the satisfaction of the coins you really want to keep?

If you need the money, sell them all., get the most you can, and don't look back.
If you want the money, but don't need it, then sell what you want to sell and keep what you want to keep.

roadrunner

In TDN's case there might not be anyone else assemblying a gem set of Seated Dollars so most are gonna get pieced out anyways.
If someone really wanted the set, they'd have to negotiate for the set up front. With the Barber set, there are multiple people looking for dates to improve their sets.

Personally, I already went through the ordeal Dale discussed. I sold a few of my "untouchable" coins back in 2004. I realized that I needed to be less attached to key coins, and selling those finally broke an 18 year trend. It also happened to be the right time to sell as well. There will always be other worthy coins. If Dale sells those coins when the market is strong, the chances are excellent he'll be able to buy them back for less down the road, or at least find suitable replacements in many other areas......think 1997-2002 when neat stuff was quite available and still priced at half of the 1990 levels.

I'm just happy with neat coins. Next market cycle it will certainly be a whole new family. In my case, I think I'm the happiest in the hunt, and necessarily the longer term ownership.

Let me put it this way. If you knew know that once you sold those coins that you could get them back (or their equivalents) for half the price would that prompt you to sell in the near future? In other words your dollar will go twice when buying back in. I went through that same soul searching as my best coins fell 50% in value from 1990-1997. And those did well considering many others fell 66%-80% in value. Frankly, the honor of keeping them those extra 10 years did not erase the thoughts of how far they fell. Certainly 1901-s quarters in gem for example will fall steeply in the not so distant future.

roadrunner

SkyMan

If the coins in the set are decent to start with they'll bring decent money. Keep the ones you like. In the long run you'll be happier... particularly if after 10 years you decide you want to redo the set.

Sunnywood

With a collection like TahoeDale's, it will not make much difference if he holds back a few personal favorites ... there will be plenty of interested bidders !!!

So ... when is the auction ??????



Sunnywood

wondercoin

"What is the downside to keeping a few of the best coins, forever"

Just 3 words -

YOU ARE DEAD

Wondercoin

AU58WALKERS

<< <i>"What is the downside to keeping a few of the best coins, forever"

Just 3 words -

YOU ARE DEAD

Wondercoin >>



Care to explain??

wondercoin

Dale asked what was the downside of keeping some coins FOREVER (repeat - FOREVER) - and I identified a big problem with that.

Wondercoin

AU58WALKERS

jmski52

Who has ever really "completed" a series, anyway? If you are a collector, why would you sell coins from a set instead of upgrading and upgrading, and then upgrading?

Edited, so as not to look like so much of a fool.

Sunnywood

wondercoin, I don't see any problem with that at all. In fact, in many ancient cultures, important citizens were buried with art, collectibles, and objects of value, including coinage. In ancient Greece it was a popular custom to place a coin under the tongue of the deceased, so that his shade (spirit) would be able to pay the fare for crossing the river Styx en route to the underworld. It was said that Charon, who ferried the boat back and forth, preferred payment in coin. Of course, I wouldn't give Charon the 1892-O micro O half; he could probably be bought off with a common date !!! But the point is, if TahoeDale wished to keep some coins forever, I think he would be able to do so.

By the way, I have never been quite so enamored of the micro-mintmark varieties as some folks. In the Barber halves, the 1892-O micro is a big deal, but I personally wouldn't feel compelled to own one. Ditto for all the Morgan varieites, such as 1903-S micro S, and many others. Once you start collecting varieties, you are on the slippery slope towards needing all of them !! It works best in early bust coinage, where each die was hand-crafted, and thus is in effect a die variety. And it works in the shield nickel series, where the need for many dies (due to the difficulty of striking the relatively new copper-nickel alloy) resulted in a lot of hastily and poorly made dies with dramatic and obvious varieties. I know that all the Barber half guys LOVE that 1892 micro O, but personally I would sell it !! However, I can understand why TahoeDale feels differently about it.

If you love something, don't let it go !!!

Best,
Sunnywood

roadrunner

Sunnywood,

I have felt the same way about the 1854-0 huge "O" quarter since the 1970's. Back then it was considered possibly somewhat overrated and even available (at least in lower grades). Today,
this most recognizable of all the seated mint mark varieties, brings a small fortune. The demand for it is in a word, mindboggling, esp in upper grades. For instance it lists for more than the 72-s quarter in each grade even though it is probably far more available. So while the Huge O may be considered a great "key" today, it was not the case in the 1970's and 1980's. And whether is really deserving of being called rare/scarce is debatable.

...but if I still had one, I would keep it a while longer
I recall cherrying at least one of these in my earlier days.

roadrunner

Sunnywood

RR,

Yes, the '54 huge O quarter goes in that category as well. Look, we all know the mintmarks wre punched in separately by hand. So here and there in various series, individual dies were created with the wrong size mintmark punch. I think these errors / varieties are interesting, and they can be a fun way to augment a basic set. But they are by no means an essential part of the basic set in my view. Otherwise, you must also say that EVERY identifiably irregular die variety is an essential part of the basic set, and I simply don't agree with that.

I do believe that varieties resulting from an intended design change can be called part of the basic set. Thus in Morgans, clearly the 1878 8TF, 1878 7TF Rev. of '78, and 1878 7TF Rev. of '79 would all have a place in the "Basic Set" by my definition. But the micro-mintmarks, over-mintmarks, overdates, and aberrant die varieties (hot lips, tailbar, spitting eagle, etc) would not.

RR it may interest you to know that seated quarters were a passion of mine when I was much younger, albeit in lower circulated grades that I could afford. I did not come close to completion, however, and sold these along with just about everything else I had in 1978-1979 to help pay for school.

Best,
Sunnywood

MFH

Dale,

From my perspective, and from whatever knowledge I have absorbed over the past
four decades in collecting Barbers, I doubt you'll be hurt too badly by keeping
a few personal favorites. However there are a limited number of collectors who
are looking for or who could afford many coins in your collection. I would suspect that
there will be active interest in your coins by all of the national dealers [++].

Steve, Peter, Sunnywood and Mr Gardner must be poised for a few of your Barbers.

Keeping the Micro O out of reach from two collectors who would have a serious
interest in it may back fire on you. If either of them decide to sell their collection - as well -
then your Micro O would only have one [**] active collector [++] who could afford it
( meaning anyone who's looking for the caliber of your coins ) instead of two [**].

{ [**] Knowing its Steve & Peter who'll be vying for the Micro O,
as Sunnywood & Mr. Gardner only collect quarters. }

{ [++] I stress the word collector...there are many dealers
who would be interested in it, but wouldn't be as generous as a collector
would be...I hope you see where I'm going with this. }

As they say timing is everything.

On a personal note, I'm sorry that you're breaking up your Barber sets.
I would have loved to have seen the quarter set imaged.

[ Maybe you and I should take a course in digital photography
at an ANA Summer Seminar one of these days !! I know we both
could use some help in imaging. ]

Sunnywood

Mike, you're right that this is as good a time as any in recent memory to sell some of these coins. Dale always has an excellent sense of timing, and I'm sure he will do well. But there's no question that a bidding war between two determined collectors with deep pockets is better for the consignor than having the usual auction pros picking up the coins later in an off market and flipping them to wholesalers, who flip them to retailers, who ultimately sell them to collectors. On the other hand, there is also the possibility of placing some of those special coins privately, by selling them directly to the collectors most likely to buy them at auction. This saves as much as 15% of the hammer price (i.e. the auction house's fee, which may vary depending on the deal the consignor gets). The real action will be on Dale's early material, which will appeal to a much broader audience than the Barber coinage - but it will all be good.

Best,
Sunnywood

Shamika

Dale,

Have you ever considered putting your entire set up for auction and adding ridiculous reserves on your favorite coins? That way, the buzz from the complete set is maintained and you don't have to give up your favorite coins unless somebody goes crazy and meets your reserves (which would also be a great thing right?).

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Dale,

Have you ever considered putting your entire set up for auction and adding ridiculous reserves on your favorite coins? That way, the buzz from the complete set is maintained and you don't have to give up your favorite coins unless somebody goes crazy and meets your reserves (which would also be a great thing right?). >>



That's the quickest way to kill the buzz on a sale that there is...

roadrunner

Unless there is collusion among a number of dealers, or the top collectors for the set don't show up, the coins will realize what they should be worth.

Sunnywood, while we agree on the tenets of the huge "O" I do have to give it some respect due to the grotesque mint mark some joker or poorly skilled craftsman created. I'm not aware of any other mint mark like it in regular US coinage. It looks like a misshapen potato. If it were just extra large that would be one thing. But to someone not aware of the variety, they might be tempted to call it a counterfeit or crude alteration. Finding one of these in choice or gem UNC would be one of my best seated dreams.
A close 2nd would finding a gem UNC 1858-s to 1861-s quarter before the big boys got wind of it (and having bought it as AU due to a slight striking weakness......)

roadrunner

Sunnywood

RR, I'll take the "S" mints !! A rare issue beats a rare variety in my book ...

I agree with TDN, everyone has to realize that if you put high reserves on coins, all of the important insiders, dealers and biders will find out about it before the sale ... and everyone will stay home, because they will know that the consignor and/or the auction house are just "taking a shot" at the bidders.

It'sworth pointing out that the Hugon Collection of Barber coinage was sold with no reserves, just like the Childs Collection, and a number of other important consignments. I think the Hugon coins did as well as possible - there was plenty of advance hype, including plenty of buzz about the lots being unreserved. As a result, everyone was there to bid. I can think of several other collections where everyone stayed home due to high reserves. A good example was the "Long Beach Connoisseur Collection" of August 1998 (or was it 1999) by Bowers & Merena. Everything was reserved high, and Sil DiGenova, the consignor's agent, sat there bidding everything up further, and buying back most of the lots (at no fee of course). "Sold to bidder number 300," was the mantra on every lot that I might otherwise have wanted.

Sunnywood

TahoeDale

I have been assessing the future sale of the Barber Halves and Quarters for some time. While the halves are complete, the quarters are still 4 coins short, with little liklihood of finding nice ones.

Before any final decision is made, I plan to speak with all the prominent auction houses, and also the current collectors who have expressed an interest.

Only after a full discussion will I decide if all the coins will go to auction, some being held back for my own use, and perhaps a direct sale of some to interested parties.

Under no circumstances will there placed idiotic reserves on any coins, so that they may be returned to me. I will just withold those I decide to keep.

This discussion has been helpful, and revealing as to tactics that might be used. Life is too short, and I really don't need the extra cash that might be generated by less than transparent actions.

nankraut

Well, my good man.....you can't keep them forever.

When you arrive in Heaven (and I hope you do), you'll just have your old soul and nothing else to present for judgment. So, think of doing something with those beautiful coins here (while you're still here) to improve your standing in the hereafter.

Shamika

<< <i>I agree with TDN, everyone has to realize that if you put high reserves on coins, all of the important insiders, dealers and biders will find out about it before the sale ... and everyone will stay home, because they will know that the consignor and/or the auction house are just "taking a shot" at the bidders. >>

And to think that all these years I thought this sort of information was kept confidential with the auction company. How foolish of me.


<< <i>Under no circumstances will there placed idiotic reserves on any coins >>

Geez... Sorry I even mentioned it.

Nic

The Barber half series is in the DUMPS. The micro-0 is an OBSCURE variety. The coin itself is toned and DARK. Perhaps you should just UNLOAD it ?










Almost forgot ...........








K