Derek Jeter...career rankings in WinShares etc...
Skinpinch
Posts: 1,531
in Sports Talk
Looking at both the offensive and defensive spectrums, I was curious to where Winshares had Jeter ranked among his contomporaries...
Here are the active leaders in winshares for SS only...
2007 Jeter 289
2007 Vizquel 250
2007 Tejada M 215
2007 Renteria 190
2007 Clayton 156
2007 Furcal R 152
2007 Rollins 139
2007 Cabrera 138
2007 Young M 119
2007 Reyes J 74
NOMAR 211
Arod 353
SOME ALL TIME SS IN WINSHARES....
Wagner 655
Ripken 427
Yount 423.....these are the top three. The rest below are just for context purposes.
Larkin 346
O. Smith 325
Trammell 318
Jeter 289
To see where Jeter is heading, his past three seasons of win shares have been 26,26, and 33. He has 11 so far this year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How about baseball prospectus Warp1....this is fielding runs and hitting runs above replacement player.
Arod 107
Jeter 72.1
Vizquel 71.3
Tejada 56.1
Renteria 47
Some historical guys...cross era comparison not perfect though.
Wagner 238
Ripken 129.5
O. Smith 127
Yount 114.5
Larkin 108.5
Trammell 97.3
Here are the active leaders in winshares for SS only...
2007 Jeter 289
2007 Vizquel 250
2007 Tejada M 215
2007 Renteria 190
2007 Clayton 156
2007 Furcal R 152
2007 Rollins 139
2007 Cabrera 138
2007 Young M 119
2007 Reyes J 74
NOMAR 211
Arod 353
SOME ALL TIME SS IN WINSHARES....
Wagner 655
Ripken 427
Yount 423.....these are the top three. The rest below are just for context purposes.
Larkin 346
O. Smith 325
Trammell 318
Jeter 289
To see where Jeter is heading, his past three seasons of win shares have been 26,26, and 33. He has 11 so far this year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How about baseball prospectus Warp1....this is fielding runs and hitting runs above replacement player.
Arod 107
Jeter 72.1
Vizquel 71.3
Tejada 56.1
Renteria 47
Some historical guys...cross era comparison not perfect though.
Wagner 238
Ripken 129.5
O. Smith 127
Yount 114.5
Larkin 108.5
Trammell 97.3
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Comments
Warp1............132
WinShares.....356
My philosophy on judging the players who moved from SS in mid career.
If the player was moved from SS in mid career because he was no longer a viable defensive option there, then I agree that he should be viewed only as a SS from the years he played...Ernie Banks and Garciaparra come to mind.
However, if a player was moved from SS because of a managers decision(probably a poor one), or a General Managers foolishness in assembling a team(see Cashman and Arod), then it is no longer a proper depiction of a players ability to count against him moving out of SS, BECAUSE HE COULD STILL CLEARLY PLAY IT!
In other words, Arod's 'value' may have went down when he went to the Yanks because he was no longer providing his team with superior numbers from the SS position, but his ability did not change. To judge against Arod for this isn't particularly fair as this is more of a judge of Cashman and Torre. It is a judge of the decision making of the guys in charge, and NOT the ability of the player. Since we are after the truth of how good the player was, we have to get rid of the factors that are out of the players control, and this is one of them.
So I still view Arod as an all-time SS, as well as Yount. I don't care if their manager or GM's had brain farts and didn't take advantage of their unique ability and moved them to a position where their ability wasn't quite as unique!