The score of a life time....I'm rich!!!! (Received the coin today)

kryptonitecomics

That's right can you imagine what this coin is going to sell for once I send it off to PCGS and it comes back MS67 DMPL!!!!!


1885 MS67 DMPL

Wow all of the other bidders must have been asleep to pass this one up

Now back to reality.....does anyone think this coin will got MS65? Forget about the DMPL.....or even PL......bag or no bag???



OK got the coin in hand and here is my take on it....

This coin would bag at any of the TPGs as the surface is certainly altered. I would agree with some of the assessments that the coin has been cleaned/polished at some point because under 18x magnification I can see micro porosity that I have seen on other polished coins....I also believe the cleaning is what gave the coin a slight PL appearance in the images. The coin is not an MS67.....it might go MS64 and it would not get even a PL designation as the mirroring is light at best.

So the bottom line is this coin is worth just north of melt and is not in any way as advertised. I have already contacted the seller to let him know I will be sending the coin back for my refund minus the restocking fee and original shipping. I would send this coin off to have it graded if I wasn't sure it would BB just as a futher step in the lesson for newbies process but I think the point can still be made...............raw coins on Ebay should be considered buyer beware. Make sure their is a clearly stated return policy if you take the plunge.

By the way......one of the sets of images on the auction are those of an 1889 Morgan......the reason I didn't notice it before was the images of the 1889 only appear if you click on some of the smaller images of the 1885. So instead of blown up images of the coin advertised you get a different images all together and the 1889 is a much much cleaner coin.

Lastly...I will be leaving feedback stating the coin was not as advertised, with the specifics. If I get my money back it will be neutral and if I don't then it will be straight up negative.

garsmith

No mirroring visable at all, looks like a MS64

Mesquite

That is a nice coin. The mirrors do look deep on both surfaces unless I'm misreading his photos. It may go 65, but the apparent hits on the reverse might take it down to a 64.

jgrinz

63pl

Cladiator

<< <i>No mirroring visable at all, looks like a MS64 >>

Wha?

goldboy

Very nice! Should grade 64 or better............................

kryptonitecomics

I bought this one for fun and certainly didn't think I scored in the least......probably even over paid but......it might be an interesting experiment for newer collectors if I were to send this coin off and see what it grades? Might illustrate the perils of shopping on Ebay for raw coins as the image makes the coin look like a 65 to me and possibly PL but I am quite sure if I sent it off that's not what it would come back as....

LostSisler

64 DMPL

GMan

I actually kind of like that coin. Nice mirrors. I'm worried by some apparent hairlining I see in the closeups. I also think the strike is a bit weak and would not make 65. BB or 64PL if not cleaned. Would love to see it in hand.

LucyBop

Good luck with it daddy-o...

DJCoinz

Please let us know what grade it gets. I'd probably give it a MS65PL.

itsnotjustme

I predict a body bag for cleaning or altered surfaces. I think there were hairlines from cleaning visible in one of those shots. I can polish any piece of silver to a nice mirror.....

Hairlines in this image on lower left.


If the seller thought it was MS65 or MS64PL, it would be slabbed not listed raw for $75.

<< <i>Might illustrate the perils of shopping on Ebay for raw coins >>

You forgot to add yet again.

So why again did you bid?

ScarsdaleCoin

I believe it will come back MS64

AUandAG

Nice coin.....No cartwheels which indicates a PL or DPL is possible.
I do suspect that it's been circulated....AU58, Wear on breast feathers and in hair.
Perhaps altered surfaces with no grade.
Or, MS65PL

yep, that's it to a T
bob

ziggy29

If the surface isn't "mirrored" because it was cleaned or polished, I think it looks like a pretty good buy at that price. IF.

If it turns out to be bodybag material, you can return it and you're out $15 or so.

DRG

First photo shows what appears to be evidence of harsh cleaning at 10 o'clock.

I hope I am wrong, but my vote is BB.

Wolf359

DMPL, probably.

Good surfaces, but the luster worries me. Low BU, but if the luster turns out ok up to MS64.

IGWT

Sounds like Shane is back in the game!

ModernDollarNut

<< <i>First photo shows what appears to be evidence of harsh cleaning at 10 o'clock.

I hope I am wrong, but my vote is BB. >>



Agree with David. Also, isn't ebay pulling listings of raw coins that use MS grades in the title or description? Rob

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>I predict a body bag for cleaning or altered surfaces. I think there were hairlines from cleaning visible in one of those shots. I can polish any piece of silver to a nice mirror.....

Hairlines in this image on lower left.


If the seller thought it was MS65 or MS64PL, it would be slabbed not listed raw for $75.

<< <i>Might illustrate the perils of shopping on Ebay for raw coins >>

You forgot to add yet again.

So why again did you bid? >>



Honestly.....didn't think it would go this cheep even though the coin is not a MS67DMPL I was just playing around on Ebay and not even really buying coins....everyone knows I buy toners if I do buy coins and this coin is a little pale for me so......all I can say is I was goofing around and got my hand caught in the cookie jar...doh. It's not the sellers fault so I of course paid for the coin......$75 isn't going to brake the bank for me if the coin is nothing like ti seems to be in the picture. I am not expect any Santa Clause moment here.....I have had plenty in the past so if this one ends up in BBvile....no biggie

itsnotjustme

Further, I do not beleive all those pictures are the same coin.

Please follow up when the coin is received, give negative feedback if deserved, and return for a refund if justified (perhaps not in that order).

kryptonitecomics

If it's a dog in hand I will send it back for sure.......$60 back in hand is better than throwing away $75 for fun I think the images are of the same coin but their are so many different angles and lighting conditions who the heck really knows....?

SkyMan

Hi Shane! Glad to see you're collecting again.

My gut feel is it will BB. If it doesn't then I'd guess 64PL.

ziggy29

By the way -- ever notice that many of the people selling crap are the ones most likely to have inflated shipping and restocking fees?

I think these people expect a lot of returns and use them as a profit center. They can churn the same coin again and again, making a few bucks each time. Do that enough times and with enough coins, and you're talking real money...

fc

talk about crying wolf. next time won't bother open the thread
just to see bad pics of a morgan.

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>talk about crying wolf. next time won't bother open the thread
just to see bad pics of a morgan. >>



I am hurt....you don't think my MS67 DMPL is going to make me rich???

ozzysdad47

It doe's look like it's been "Whizzed"............JMHO...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

ziggy29

<< <i>I am hurt....you don't think my MS67 DMPL is going to make me rich??? >>

The only way this coin can make you rich is if you sell it and use the proceeds to help pay for a legal name change to Rich.

mfcobra

<< <i>I'm worried by some apparent hairlining I see in the closeups >>



Hairlines is not necessarily evidence of 'whizzing' or altered surfaces. It is quite common for PL or DMPL Morgan dollars to have hairlines which could have been caused by 'basining' or rather polishing of the die that struck the coin.

NumisOxide

<< <i>Hairlines in this image on lower left.
>>


Might be die polish lines.

MORGANHUNTER2

I've seen these coins before, about 2 yrs ago on ebay- being sold by a person in Texas touting they were from grandads estate left to her for school- in fact I bid on a 84cc that looked exactly like this- claimed dmpl- but she did not know coins, etc. I won the auction- when I got the coin- the smell was horrendous- as if someone forgot to get the ms70 washed off- under scope- it was buffed- I predict with a dremel and a fine type of wheel. The coin went back- immediately- no feedback was left either side- money was refunded in full with my return shipping cost covered- I got my $$ back before coin was sent. I did not hesitate at the time to tell the seller to be real careful when trying to sell a coin that was altered to the max- she said she bought it from a friend who had hundreds of em- made me wonder who - but I never went back to look- maybe I should have.

Another genuis that was good at this is in Florida- we all know him by many ebay names- but gary Patch is a better name to remember- and folks - don't jump me about me getting sued for defaming the guy- he did it to himself a hundred times.

As Laura would all tell you- be careful who you deal with.
(damn- I am actually taking a quote from the Legend?)

RedTiger

Seller has a bunch of them raw. Unfortunately, this makes me suspect a Dremel tool.

During the 1970s a good number of expertly whizzed coins got passed off as high grade DMPLs. The quality was high enough to fool quite a few dealers and veteran collectors. Maybe this seller is making them new, or got a hold of a large quantity of those older coins. If the coins are as nice as the photos show, the seller is leaving a lot of money on the table. In this business, I have learned that rarely does that happen when a seller has coins in quantity. If it were one coin or two coins, the odds would be better.

I don't like the odds. Personally, I would not pay much more than average circulated prices for these so-called DMPLs. Buyers paying more than that encourage such activities and such sellers and are as much as part of the problem as those altering the coins.

TCoins

I've got a hunch, that coin has seen more cleaning than Alice on the Brady Bunch!

ChuckC

It's seen more cleaning than Léon!

kryptonitecomics

I actually agree with most of you that the coin is not going to be as advertised....or even close to it.....but I did purchase it knowing that and as I mentioned...I was playing around and got my hand caught in the cookie jar. Worse case scenario I am out $15 bucks and I can provide a lesson about the perrils of raw coin buying on Ebay to less experienced collectors. My post was meant to be tongue and cheek at best as I would never buy a raw Morgan like this thinking I got a deal.......I was just haveing a little fun


I will be sure to bring this post to the top once I receive the coin so we can discuss what actually arrives etc.

nankraut

<< <i>I predict a body bag for cleaning or altered surfaces. I think there were hairlines from cleaning visible in one of those shots. I can polish any piece of silver to a nice mirror.....

Hairlines in this image on lower left.


If the seller thought it was MS65 or MS64PL, it would be slabbed not listed raw for $75.

<< <i>Might illustrate the perils of shopping on Ebay for raw coins >>

You forgot to add yet again.

So why again did you bid? >>



I agree with itsnotjustme on this one. Looks like a "whiz job" on the photos.

lava

<< <i>I predict a body bag for cleaning or altered surfaces. I think there were hairlines from cleaning visible in one of those shots. I can polish any piece of silver to a nice mirror.....

Hairlines in this image on lower left.


If the seller thought it was MS65 or MS64PL, it would be slabbed not listed raw for $75.

<< <i>Might illustrate the perils of shopping on Ebay for raw coins >>

You forgot to add yet again.

So why again did you bid? >>



I agree.

Coxe

Well, the date is common as a prooflike. Still I wouldn't recommend buying a raw PL Morgan unless you know them well and have personally inspected it in hand. What appear as scratches in the lower left reverse could very well just be die polish lines. Under E . P on the obverse is another story though. They do look like cleaning. If was going to start whizzing my own DMPLs with a dremel, I would start on dates like this to get good at it. As for the lack of a cartwheel, I agree that does indicate some promise of prooflike fields. It also could indicate a whizzed coin. If it turns out bad, it sure isn't the most expensive lesson. If it is the real deal (and I would guess 64PL), then it is a nice one. You certainly knew what you were getting into anyway. Let us know how it turns out.

kryptonitecomics

Got the coin in hand today and placed in update in the first post of this thread......

Swampboy

I'll give 10x.

itsnotjustme

So you are out almost $20, and the seller has $11-12 profit.

$11.25 restocking fee (Profit for the seller--this is what he was shooting for, $11 for nothing.)
$ 5.50 shipping (a little more profit in here)
$ 2.50 return shipping

Note the seller will get out of the Final Value Fee also since it was returned. A slimy but profitable business model.

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>So you are out almost $20, and the seller has $11-12 profit.

$11.25 restocking fee (Profit for the seller--this is what he was shooting for, $11 for nothing.)
$ 5.50 shipping (a little more profit in here)
$ 2.50 return shipping

Note the seller will get out of the Final Value Fee also since it was returned. A slimy but profitable business model. >>



Yes that sums it up but here are a few more points to consider....

#1 I knew what I was getting into when I purchased the coin raw so a $20 loss is more than acceptable, and it's a small price for me to pay if even one new collector learns what to avoid from my dealings here

#2 I have a clean conscience.........which is more than I can say for the seller although I don't suspect he will lose any sleep over how he does business

#3 I don't care how long you collect....there is always something new that can be learned.....by having this coin in hand I was able to see what it looked like to the namked eye and then see what the surface looked like under higher magnification. I guarantee that will make me a bit more cautious when buying coins in the future even slabbed ones becuase there is a lot that can be hidden to the naked eye

#4 you were pretty much right on the money about this deal......but I had little doubt that you would be given the odds of getting an MS67 DMPL for $75 bucks

By the way the seller is extremely nice about giving me the refund as his feedback would elude too......and I did tell him the coin was cleaned and he did not comment on that but said it was the same coin as was pictured in the auction. Once I pointed out that two of the large images were of a different coin he admitted that he had made a mistake with the uploading of images.

coinbuf

<<By the way the seller is extremely nice about giving me the refund as his feedback would elude too......and I did tell him the coin was cleaned and he did not comment on that but said it was the same coin as was pictured in the auction. Once I pointed out that two of the large images were of a different coin he admitted that he had made a mistake with the uploading of images. >>

If that is the case inform him that the auction was bogus and you should not have to pay the restocking charge.

Chris

lordmarcovan

ROFL @ their stated "MS67", but otherwise I like the look of that coin, and fer 75 bucks, I would've maybe taken a gamble on it.

RedTiger

Unfortunately, the coin doc will go merrily along, duping more newbies next week, and next month, making as much money as an honest seller on the 10% that bother with returns. Earn good money on a steady diet of small fish that don't want to return, and living large with an occasional big score on a big fish that believes the hype.

A couple of folks reading here might learn to avoid. However, on the bay, there always seems to be a greater fool, always willing to play roulette and not mind losing. I guess it could be worse, the seller could slab these gems at one of the no-name services and get another 50% for their coins.

Stuff likes this can make a person upset if they dwell on it too much. Sigh.

The line about not believing in Santa Claus comes to mind. Again, in this business, rarely do sellers with coins in quantity leave signficant money on the table on a consistent basis. Most that look for Santa end up with the Grinch. This is true on Ebay, true in the big magazine ads.