OK Messageboard - I need opinions on this 1974 Deckle - Counterfeit? I think so!

frankhardy

I actually have a 1974 Topps Deckle Edge Bob Gibson graded a PSA 8. I am selling it due to the fact that I don't need one in that good of condition. I have been looking for a raw one. Well, I found one on Ebay with a Buy It Now for $90 with a seller with 99.9% feedback. I thought, "this is great." Well, I get it today and take a real good look at it - not so great.

First of all, it is not "deckled" at all (even though it looked it in the seller's scan). If you look at my picture below, you can see that it has a straight edge, with a "phantom" deckled edge and a border. I got suspicious real quick. So, I took my Lou Brock and compared the size of the deckled part, and sure enough, the Gibson (just the deckled part) is a little larger than the Brock. That's not all. I then very closely compared the PSA 8 with the one I just got. The pixels are much different. The one I got today is VERY pixelated (if that's a word). I can really tell it on the hat. The PSA 8 is much more smooth in the hat area, while the pixels on the one I got today is very noticeable. Oh, and that's not all. If you take a look at the left edge on the first "corner" above the black shaded area (straight over from the tip of his nose) you can tell that this card I have is just a picture of the card because I can see wear on that "corner". It is also evident on the right edge on the first corner in the black area just over from the bottom part of his ear.

My thinking is this is almost certainly a counterfeit.

I have never heard of these being counterfeit. Have any of you? I am not blaming the seller. Maybe he thought that it was just a proof version because the proof versions do have straight edges. The proof versions, however, have nothing "deckled" about them.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Here is a scan of the entire card and a closeup of the left edge.

bishop

I would need to know the sellers ID, but I think this is at least the second of these he has sold. If you do not want to put it on the board pm me and I will confirm

frankhardy

PM sent.

One thing I forgot to mention - This Gibson "seems" thicker than the Brock that I have. I could not really tell by looking, but it just felt thicker and sturdier.

digicat

They're listed in the SCD Sportscard Counterfeit Detector book from 1993, though it doesn't mention something like this "proof" version..

"...Generally, the counterfeits can be seen to have a much grayer appearance than the genuine black-and-white cards, lacking much of the contrast. This is caused by the counterfeit having a black dot structure to the photo that is much heaver than the genuine.

The easiest method of distinguishing the counterfeit ‘74 deckles from the genuine cards is to examine the area of the blue facsimile signature on the front of the card. The counterfeits have a black "shadow" of dots visible under magnification beneath the signature. This is not present on the genuine cards."



Lots of stuff has been hit by the counterfeiters. It's crazy. According to the book, they've even hit the 1987 Fleer Ruben Sierra rc!

bishop

frankhardy...same seller. Return pm sent

frankhardy

Bishop,

PM sent.



digicat,

thanks for the info. That is exactly what I am finding (about the dots).

frankhardy

I just asked for a refund. His feedback is 99.9%, so I would expect he would comply. I hope so.

bishop

Seller has two more of these "deckels" up for sale now. They appear deckled, but that which appears as background is actually part of card

frankhardy

Yep, I saw that. I still have not received a reply from him.

frankhardy

He did reply. He said that he would refund if proven to be counterfeit.

goose3

<< <i>He did reply. He said that he would refund if "proven" to be counterfeit. I hope that doesn't mean that we have to send to PSA to verify because I KNOW they are counterfeit. >>




why should that matter?

If you want to refund it, he should accept it and refund you the bid price.

Have you left feedback?

Does his auction state anything about returns?

Did you use paypal?

frankhardy

I have not left feedback and neither has he. I did use Paypal, though. He does not have a return policy stated in his auction.

digicat

I could scan the page from the Counterfeit detector book later tonight for you to show this guy. If you put it together with some high-res scans of the card you got, compared to a legit one that you might have in your collection.

If you know a little HTML, put this stuff up in a web page and send him the link to it.


While I'm not an expert on this issue at all, I did a search on Google and Ebay for "1974 Topps Deckle proof" and found something totally different from what this guy is selling. Cards w/o the deckle, but the deckle isn't printed on the card.

frankhardy

Exactly (about the proof).

Yes, please scan it. If you want to, just post the scan right here and I will copy it and send it along with my scans in an email. Thanks for offering.

digicat

frankhardy

Thanks for the scan. I used my loupe, and yes, mine does have that "shadow" of pixels. It is definitely counterfeit. I got an email last night stating that he would refund my money once the card was delivered to him.

digicat

Make sure to use delivery confirmation w/ signature. You don't want this guy doing the old "When are you going to send the card back?" trick.