OK, I think its time for this....all time shortstops...how do YOU rate?

yankeeno7

Just something for a bit of fun since the debate goes on and on and on about Derek Jeter. I'll list the Hall of Famers and then any other SS I can think of(Jeter, Concepcion, Trammell, ARod)....add any other SS you want and go ahead and put them in your order. I think in this case it is ok to assume where you think the current players listed will end up by the end of their career. Please attempt to be objective. This ought to be interesting....
Luis Aparicio
Luke Appling
Dave Bancroft
Ernie Banks
Lou Boudreau
Joe Cronin
Dave Concepcion
George Davis
Travis Jackson
Hughie Jennings
Derek Jeter
Pop Lloyd
Rabbit Maranville
Pee Wee Reese
Cal Ripken Jr
Phil Rizzuto
Alex Rodriguez
Joe Sewell
Ozzie Smith
Joe Tinker
Alan Trammell
Arky Vaughan
Honus Wagner
Bobby Wallace
Monte Ward
Willie Wells
Robin Yount

onlyanumber

Gotta add Barry Larkin and Omar Vizquel to that list.

IrishMike

Old enough to remember Luke Appling, then Chico Carresquel and Louis Aparicio who played in successive years for the White Sox. With Nellie at 2nd they were remarkable, all. Carresquel was selected ahead of Rizzuto for the all star team one year, he was that good.

jaxxr

Shortstop, of all positions in baseball, is the most "Defense Ablity" affected.

Any position requires defensive ability, but none quite as much as SS. Any player must be evaluated by not only his hitting, but also his base running, his endurance-injury proneness, his disposition, as well as his fielding.
The real key to evaluate an overall quality rate of a player is to rank and aportion the various factors which make up the total player.

With the above in mind, here's my ranking;
1 Honus Wagner, best hitter, fine fielder and base runner, average durabity.
2 Lou Boudreau, one of the best fielders, good hitter, average base runner and durability.
3 Oz Smith, perhaps top fielder, decent ? hitter, fine base runner, average durability
4.Cal Ripken,, above average fielder, good hitter, average base runner, top durability
5. Arky Vaughn, average fielder, very good hitter, average base runner, above average durability.

Eddie Miller, Evertt Scott, Dick Lundy, and Larry Bowa were outstanding fielders, Ernie Banks, Robin Yount, Luke Appling, and Vern Stephens were outstanding hitters, Barry Larkin, Al Trammel, Ray Chapman, Bobby Wallace, and Tony Fernandez were pretty well balanced.

gregmo32

I would think Alex Rodriguez would have to be the top five, even with a shortened career at SS...

dallasactuary

1. Honus Wagner
2. Cal Ripken
3. Arky Vaughan
4. Derek Jeter
5. Robin Yount

Yes, fielding is important, and Ozzie was the best fielder, but it's simply impossible to make up with fielding the offensive chasm that exists between Ozzie and these guys. He's top 10, not top 5.

I left out A-Rod because of the limited time he spent at SS. If we agree that we can rank his entire career under "shortstop", then he's number 2. Jeter, barring a serious injury relatively soon, is almost certain to pass Vaughan, is very likely to pass Ripken, and has no chance at passing A-Rod or Wagner.

Bunker

I agree with adding Barry Larkin to the list. In some ways playing for Cincinnati hurt him. If he would have played with the Yankees or Boston or some other large media team he would be a household name.

jaxxr

I left off any active player, their stats are NOT final yet.

Some possibly might be underestimating the importance of a SS with regard to defense. The SS handles/is involved in, more plays from the opposition,( not balls caught from your pitcher or thrown to first by your teamates) than any other position. IE a great fielding 1Bman, is far less of value, relatively, than a great fielding SS.

Anyway, Lou Boudreau, was a good hitter, his lifetime .295 BA was some 30 points above the league average, his OB and Slg. were also 38 and 34 points above. His adjusted OBP+ was a fine 120. His defense was great, he had a career RF, range factor, above Ozzie, and his field pct, though .05 below Oz, was better than his peers by a greater margin, than Smith. His ten plus years a manager, some while playing, would likely make him a more knowlegeable player, in respect to the game and its situations, than most.

Ripken, Vaughn, and Yount were much less the defenders, than Lou.

It is tough to figure how much exactly, defense should come into the factors, and I would only really strongly disagre with anyone who would not consider Wagner number one at the defense supreme SS position.

KalineFan

Does Ray Oyler count in there somewhere?

Tony

fiveniner

<< <i>Does Ray Oyler count in there somewhere?

Tony >>



From one Tony to another too bad he couldnt hit as well as he could field.Had he been able to hiy at least 220 he could actually be on the list.

Tony

BobaFett72

One of the finest SS I have ever seen in my lifetime is Omar Vizquel. Ozzie Smith and Barry Larkin are right up there too.

yankeeno7

I have to say I found some thoughts in this thread to be interesting. I actually thought it would bring some light to the whole Jeter debate and how everyone calls him over rated. By the end of his career (barring injuries, of course) he may end up being one of the top SS of all time. Can any HOF that highly touted really be over rated? Unless of course you consider all the NY media hype then I can guess you can say he is....but what about for everyone outside of NY?

Would Jeter be this high on the list if he played for the Royals, A's, or any other team you can think of? I think he would be and the reason why is because of his numbers and all around play. I know people like to argue his power numbers (HR's, RBI's, etc) but lets not forget that most of his career he has been a #1 or #2 guy in the lineup. His numbers are outstanding for that lineup position. And yes, I think he could have done this with any other team.

I agree with what many have commented on. Omar Vizquel and Barry Larkin...two of the better shortstops the game has seen for sure. Who knows if either make it to the hall.

I dont think Larkin playing for Cincy hurt him at all. Look at the HOFers that have gained fame in Cincy! Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Tom Seaver(and of course with the Mets too), Pete Rose, Ernie Lombardi, Tony Perez, and of course Ken Griffey Jr.

Jxxr, I really liked your take on your top 5.

baseballfan

1. wagner (great player)
2. ripken (changed the position to a big guys position hence arod)

then
3. a-rod (would be the best, hands down, if he still played there and I'm a ripken fan)
4. aparicio
5. larkin (i just think he was great)

Ozzie Smith
Lou Boudreau
Joe Tinker