I want the best grades possible, is there really any trick to beating the odds?

ANACONDA

Here's what Ron Guth, President of PCGS, said:

"I've heard similar stories, plus many more amusing ways that submitters believe they can "beat the odds" and get better grades. Some people swear by the faster services. Some people only submit at shows; others only submit coins to the PCGS office. Some people stage their orders from what they believe to be the worst coin to the best; others go in the other direction. Some people submit the exact same number of coins every time, whether it's one coin, five coins, 19 coins, or...you pick the number. Some people believe that our graders are freshest at the beginning of the week; others believe that the grading is better mid-week after the graders have had a chance to settle in. I've heard countless other "theories" over the years. I even had my own when I was a submitter before coming to work at PCGS. Any time a submitter receives the grades they expect, it reinforces in their mind the way in which they submitted their coins. If they are successful more than once, they become convinced that they have found the best way to get the best grades. In reality, the most successful submitters are the people who best understand the PCGS grading standards and who have fine-tuned their eyes to ours. "

So, what do you think?

GoldenEyeNumismatics

I believe that show grading is better, but that's it

WTCG

Everybody has their own theories to generate the best grading results. Whether these theories or customs work or not is open for discussion as everybody has differing opinions and observations.

Here's the best known trick out there...make sure you know what you're doing and how to grade before cracking anyting out for resubmission.

storm888

The two critical-maxims have been stated:

"In reality, the most successful submitters are the people who best
understand the PCGS grading standards and who have fine-tuned
their eyes to ours. "


"...make sure you know what you're doing and how to grade before
cracking anything out for resubmission."


That is really all there is to it.

Moki

Call me naive, but I believe the PCGS graders do their best to objectively grade according to the standards outlined in their book. It is in the best interests of their business to do so and to try to be consistent. There are however, a lot of collectors and dealers who have submitted many hundreds of coins more than I have who may see it otherwise.

I do think it is human nature to hope and imagine coins will grade higher than they do, just like it seems to be human nature that E-bay dealers selling raw coins overgrade in relation to PCGS by an average of 2 grades, and dealers selling PCGS slabbed coins regularly claim the coin is undergraded. It is very rarely the other way around.

Obviously, it is still a subjective process, and with humans involved there will be mistakes. I think Ron was being sincere.

fivecents

<< <i>I want the best grades possible, is there really any trick to beating the odds? >>

Submitting "teaser coins " along with your regular order can have positive results.

sweetwilliet

I've found I receive the best grades when I put fudge brownies mixed in with my submission.

holeinone1972

<< <i>

<< <i>I want the best grades possible, is there really any trick to beating the odds? >>

Submitting "teaser coins " along with your regular order can have positive results. >>



But what if they grade your teaser coins after your others?

fivecents

<< <i>But what if they grade your teaser coins after your others? >>

The teaser coins are used as a comparison to the coin you are really trying to get graded. I wouldn't think it would matter too much if they saw it before or after the regular coin.

roadrunner

I don't think Ron Guth spent a lot of time as a crackout dealer in the past 20 years. The ones best able to describe and rate the process are those specific crackout dealers. The ones I worked with in the 1988-90 market were very systematic. I have zero doubts that they have additional ways to maximize their chances. Just knowing who is grading that week and how they typically do for you in your area of expertise should be a huge help. All graders are not the same. I think that's pretty apparent by the grading consistency of classic type coins. I have nothing to offer on the grading of post 1930 coinage however.

I'm a firm believer in how the coins are ordered and who is keeping company with them. If you send in a bunch of junk and cleaned coins, plus one blazing MS64++ type coin. The odds are less in your favor of getting a MS65. Send that same coin in with a bunch of orig gem 65-67 coins, odds are better it well get dragged through. It makes sense to me to pick the highlight coin you want to come back the higher grade (assuming it's very high end to begin with) and surround it with coins that make it look better. If that coin stands out amongst some so-so MS64's it can be bumped to 65. Having the supporting coins is not easy. Set-up coins worked very well for me in the 1988-90 market, but that was when I felt classic coin grading accuracy was at a peak. Moderns have shifted the status quo in the market. Given a group of coins to send in, I always feel there is an optimum way to arrange them, whether anyone believes it or not. While graders can look in any order they choose, don't ya think like most of us they start from one side or the other? How are auction lots viewed? How many graders have burned that in over the years from seeing hundreds of thousands of coins in order?
And if they mix the coins all up, that makes more work for the sorting department. The easiest and most likely method is from one end to the other. Anything else makes more work....for everyone. Just my 2 cent piece.

Yes, there are absolutely ways to slightly increase or lower your chances. Casino's operate on the same rules. Having good eyes is pre-requisite, not all groups of coins are created equal. TDN once mentioned that sending in a set of seated coins allows the graders to compare and ensure the best coins don't get overlooked. The saem principle is at work here. Highlight and frame the key coins in the group. Sure they could grade all the coins tighter....you lose.
Next time they may grade them all looser...and your key coins get bumped. We setup and sell our cars and houses in a similar fashion by improving the surroundings and the company they keep.

To think that one can't improve the odds of winning at the casino, with selling your house, doing better on an exam or job interview, making a successful sales pitch or presentation, are only kidding themselves to think that how or when or to whom coins are submitted is irrelevant.

roadrunner

Longacre

I think fine tuning your eyes is the best advice. Other than that, the rest is left to chance.

oxy8890

<< <i>The two critical-maxims have been stated:

"In reality, the most successful submitters are the people who best
understand the PCGS grading standards and who have fine-tuned
their eyes to ours. "


"...make sure you know what you're doing and how to grade before
cracking anything out for resubmission."


That is really all there is to it.


Storm888 and I agree 100% on this!


>>

sonoranmonsoon

I tried to slip them an extra $100 bill with my coin submission. Thought it might help. Unfortunately, they slabbed the paper money and kept the coins as a partial payment. Just kidding of course.

foodude

Too get good grades, send in nice coins

fc

i thought ngc existed for those who could not get the grade
they wanted at pcgs. stop sending them to the wrong company.

StampAlarm

What is a set up coin?


What does....knowing which grading team is grading....mean?



Jerry

LickThoseStamps

If I cracked out 10 PCGS coins, 8-69s and 2-70s and resubmitted them to PCGS, would I get 8=69s and 2-70s in return from their "finely-tuned" process?