Donruss Factory Set Variations

ajw

I asked the other day if anyone had a 1987 Donruss Factory set Will Clark. Factory set cards had their backs aligned different than wax cards that year. While I still don't have an example of that one, I thought I'd show examples of the 1988, 90 and 91 Donruss factory set variations.

1988: fairly easy to see. I don't believe ALL cards have a variation, as all 30 (or so) of my base Will Clark cards are identical. I also opened a factory set last summer and the base card did not have a variation. The Diamond King sure does, though.





1991: the "paint splatter" design is different in wax and factory sets. The variation is not that obvious at first glance, but shows up clearly if you have a handful of the same card. Here are examples of the Will Clark base card and All-Star card.





And a zoom to show the detail:



1991: probably the most obvious, as the stripes are completely different from the wax and factory sets. I only have the Will Clark All-Star card, but I suspect the base card shows the same variation.

MeteoriteGuy

The PSA 10 Will Clark I got from 4-corners is the factory set version....I imagine almost all the 1987 Donruss PSA 10's on ebay are from factory sets.

Mark

AlanAllen

Awesome. I love when player collectors get into the minutia of variations of their player's cards.

Joe

brumbach

Another rarely mentioned wax/factory set variation is with the 1990 OPC set. The cards in the wax packs use traditional OPC cardboard. The cards out of the factory sets on the other hand used traditional Topps cardboard and when placed next to each other you can see the difference.

ajw

<< <i>Another rarely mentioned wax/factory set variation is with the 1990 OPC set. The cards in the wax packs use traditional OPC cardboard. The cards out of the factory sets on the other hand used traditional Topps cardboard and when placed next to each other you can see the difference. >>



Really? You mean the white vs. grey cardboard? I didn't know that...but I'm going to dig into my doubles right now.

CDsNuts

I didn't know that either and I've slowly turned into an OPC guy. In fact, I have a 1990 OPC factory set listed in my ebay store.

What I don't really get is that PSA doesn't disinguish these variations (1981 OPC greyback for instance), but they will distinguish other variations, particularly in vintage sets. Seems kind of arbitrary.

Lee

brumbach

Yup, grey vs. white. They present better in person but you can tell by the scans too. Also, I do not have any examples but I believe that there are variations on the backs of the 1991 Stadium Club cards. I think that there were two versions of each sheet printed up, one with one asterick by the copyright and the other version with two astericks. I picked up this information emailing back and forth with a hard-core 1991 Stadium Club collector several years ago.



Another variation is on the 1995 Score Sample cards, they come with white letters and black letters. I think that the black lettered ones are scarcer than the white ones.

tennesseebanker

Drew,
If you still need an 87 Donruss Will Clark let me know and I will dig through my 87 sets and find you one.

jmbkb4

had no idea about this.

very interesting!!

TNP777

Drew - I have all the Brett Butler Donruss variations you mentioned, including the '87 reverse back. Another Butler I have that may or may not be available with Will's card is in 1989 - the only way it would have occured was if Clark was a league leader in any category. On Butler's, next to RECENT MAJOR LEAGUE PERFORMANCE, I've got two different versions of the following caption:

*Denotes
Led League

and

*Denotes*
Led League

As far as 1990 OPC goes, looks like I've got a grey back. I don't suppose anyone has a white back #571? And now a 1991 Stadium Club variation? Ugh! I looked at my Butler and can barely see what I think may be a single asterisk. Gonna have to put it on the scanner and blow it up a little. As AlanAllan said, I love the minutae of variations that the hardcore player collectors chase.

Geordie

ajw

<< <i>Drew - I have all the Brett Butler Donruss variations you mentioned, including the '87 reverse back. Another Butler I have that may or may not be available with Will's card is in 1989 - the only way it would have occured was if Clark was a league leader in any category. On Butler's, next to RECENT MAJOR LEAGUE PERFORMANCE, I've got two different versions of the following caption:

*Denotes
Led League

and

*Denotes*
Led League

As far as 1990 OPC goes, looks like I've got a grey back. I don't suppose anyone has a white back #571? And now a 1991 Stadium Club variation? Ugh! I looked at my Butler and can barely see what I think may be a single asterisk. Gonna have to put it on the scanner and blow it up a little. As AlanAllan said, I love the minutae of variations that the hardcore player collectors chase.

Geordie >>



I (finally) went back and checked my cards for these variations. I can confirm the one and two * variations for both the Will Clark base card and the Will Clark MVP card. I'll be adding them to my web page in the coming days.

I also identified the 1991 Stadium Club variation. I believe it's the sheet identifier letter near the bottom of the card's reverse. They're not asterisk variations, but rather letter variations. I think the Will's are "E*" and "F*" (but I could be wrong).

I'll post images of all three variations in the coming days.

Finally, I don't think I have the white stock OPC card. Are we confident they come out of factory boxes? If so, do ALL factory boxes have white stock? Geordie, I'll pick up a set and send you the Butler, if you want. (I'd be thrilled to trade you that for the postcard!)

Any other random variations out there?

BunchOBull

The "holo-foil" imprint on the back of early Upper Deck sets is oftentimes different. Little security variations they say. You'll see gold or silver foil in both circle and baseball diamond patterns.

ajw

I'm really finding these variations interesting lately. I guess that's what happens as it gets harder and harder to find any "regular" cards I don't have.

I've finally dug through my Will Clark doubles to see if I have some other random variations I recently heard of. It turns out I do.

Oh, there's another interesting thread about 1988 Donruss back variations here.

Anyone have other oddball variations they want to show off?

Here's the 1990 Bowman Art card variation. You can see that one has two asterisks while the other has just one.



And, here's the 1991 Stadium Club variation. One is from sheet E, while the other's from sheet F. (This one is hard to see, because it's in the red seam of the baseball near the bottom edge.)

CDsNuts

You really go over each and every card with a fine-toothed comb don't you? In the old Beckett days, you would've gotten the eagle-eye award every month. Nice catches.

ajw

<< <i>You really go over each and every card with a fine-toothed comb don't you? In the old Beckett days, you would've gotten the eagle-eye award every month. Nice catches. >>



I'm happy to say that I do NOT discover these on my own. Some dealers list the variations, so I just make a note to check my own doubles. I've known of these two for several months, but only now got around to checking to see for myself. I always figured these were discovered by people busting vending cases into sets back in the day. Though, I suspect the printing sheet designators frequently cause variations, so I'm sure people look at those specifically.

CDsNuts

Makes me really glad I'm not a player collector. I don't know if I could handle driving myself crazy trying to find the "*G**" Eddie Murray variation from 1993 Donruss Triple Play.

ajw

<< <i>Makes me really glad I'm not a player collector. I don't know if I could handle driving myself crazy trying to find the "*G**" Eddie Murray variation from 1993 Donruss Triple Play. >>



Really? I love this stuff. I also really like finding cards where Will is in the background of another player's card. I've got maybe 25 or so, and they're always a good find. A very prominent Mark Grace collector dubbed these "cameo" cards, and I need to add a page to my website for them.

Personally, I find this *way* more rewarding than worrying about whether my ten cent card is in a PSA 9 or PSA 10 holder. I understand that drive for perfection, but it's not something I'm really interested in. Completion is far more important to me than perfection.

What I love about this message board is that we have so many collectors from whom I can learn so very much. I may not want to collect what the next person does, but I love learning about his collection and seeing his new additions. In the same way, I hope my Will Clark silliness is interesting to someone out there.

Not that I'd stop if it isn't...

CDsNuts

My problem is I could see becoming obsessed with getting every variation to the point where it would drive me crazy if there was one I couldn't find. I totally get it, and it scares me man. It scares me......

GDM67

<< <i> I also really like finding cards where Will is in the background of another player's card. I've got maybe 25 or so, and they're always a good find. A very prominent Mark Grace collector dubbed these "cameo" cards, and I need to add a page to my website for them. >>

Those are great. No Sandberg collection is really complete without the 83 Topps Reggie Smith.

xphunk

i love this thread. but now i have to go dig through my piles of late 80's pucketts. wish me luck.

luke

ajw

Here are a few more additions. These are from 1989 and each are available with either one or two asterisks around the "denotes league leader" text. The base card single * variation might be tough, as I had only two in about 30 examples.



The MVP card variation seems easier...or maybe I just happen to have more of them.

ajw

Here's one that isn't a Donruss variation, but I thought I'd include it. These are 1989 Phoenix Magnetables, and they come in two variations. They're easily distinguished by the color text, but the image itself is also different. One is much "cleaner" and softer.



The 1990 magnets are available in at least two packages, as well.

originalisbest

I'm good friends with the Mark Grace collector you mention, who enjoys getting "cameos" of Mark on other players' cards.

ajw

<< <i>I'm good friends with the Mark Grace collector you mention, who enjoys getting "cameos" of Mark on other players' cards. >>



I recently uploaded many of my Will Clark cameos to my website. There are quite a few more I need to pick up, and I'm sure there are many others I don't even know about.

Here are two of the more interesting cameos:

1989 Topps Big Rafael Palmeiro


2000 Skybox Dugout Access Dean Palmer

digicat

Heh, this is about as subtle as you can get for a cameo...



edit to add:
Awesome idea for a card to commerate Kenny Roger's perfect game too!

ajw

<< <i>Heh, this is about as subtle as you can get for a cameo...
>>



Yeah, I agree. I've gone back and forth on that one. I have a few of the parallels for that card, and need to either include them all or take down the one I do. In the end, I decided to include it. Why not, right?

BeanBone

ajw, I just wanted to say I find all of this stuff and your website both fascinating and inspiring. The attention to detail and drive for completion is amazing.

ajw

<< <i>ajw, I just wanted to say I find all of this stuff and your website both fascinating and inspiring. The attention to detail and drive for completion is amazing. >>



Thanks. That's why this board is so great. Everyone collects something different, and I love hearing about all of them. I'm glad my little corner of the hobby is interesting to someone out there...

TNP777

<< <i>Here's one that isn't a Donruss variation, but I thought I'd include it. These are 1989 Phoenix Magnetables, and they come in two variations. They're easily distinguished by the color text, but the image itself is also different. One is much "cleaner" and softer.

>>



hmmm....interesting bit of info. I've got a black text Butler. Gonna have to see if there's an orange variation for him, too. Thanks for the info, Drew.

originalisbest

It is very interesting -- and no doubt exhausting! Very cool.

mmync

<< <i>I asked the other day if anyone had a 1987 Donruss Factory set Will Clark. Factory set cards had their backs aligned different than wax cards that year. While I still don't have an example of that one, I thought I'd show examples of the 1988, 90 and 91 Donruss factory set variations.

1988: fairly easy to see. I don't believe ALL cards have a variation, as all 30 (or so) of my base Will Clark cards are identical. I also opened a factory set last summer and the base card did not have a variation. The Diamond King sure does, though.





1991: the "paint splatter" design is different in wax and factory sets. The variation is not that obvious at first glance, but shows up clearly if you have a handful of the same card. Here are examples of the Will Clark base card and All-Star card.





And a zoom to show the detail:



1991: probably the most obvious, as the stripes are completely different from the wax and factory sets. I only have the Will Clark All-Star card, but I suspect the base card shows the same variation.





>>





Is #66 the card that you want to see? Let me know and I will unwrap this pack and scan it. It should be in this pack right?

ajw

<< <i>


Is #66 the card that you want to see? Let me know and I will unwrap this pack and scan it. It should be in this pack right?
>>



Thanks, MMYNC, but I have the 1987 Donruss variation, now. You did remind me that I need to scan it and upload it to my page, though.

While I'll do that soon, here's yet another oddball variation. This is from the 1992 Topps McDonald's set, and is another of the * vs. ** variations.

ajw

Ok...I scanned the 1987 Donruss variation. Here they are. Both cards are scanned the same way, with the card properly aligned (bottom on bottom, when looking at the front.)

The more common wax version is on the left, with the factory version on the right.

ajw

Ok...here's one more. I should really scan both versions together. Maybe tonight.

Anyway, it's a 1987 Sportflics card with a 1987 copyright. Most have a 1986 copyright. I believe all cards have this variation, though I only have the base Will Clark. I'm still looking for the tri-star version.

ajw

Two more variations:

1992 Leaf. This apparently impacts both the standard and black parallel cards, though I only have the base. Note the "INC." vs. "INC" difference.



1992 Score Dream Team. This one is similar to the 1987 Donruss back variation. I'm not sure how the reversed variation was issued...were there factory sets that year?

ajw

Since I'm making this thread a running catalog of the variations I'm finding in my Will Clark collection, I thought I'd add the text from another thrad about 1988 Donruss font variations. Here's the full thread.

A serious Mark Grace collector just informed me of a variation on the back of (at least some) 1988 Donruss cards. It seems that the "Career Highlights" text is printed in a smaller, or less bold, font. That difference is easy to see, as the lines break at different words. Here's an example from my collection:

Common on Top
Rare on Bottom


Here is the Grace collector's post on the Beckett boards.

There's some question as to whether this is a factory set variation, or if both versions were available in wax packs. Regardless, the rare version seems to be about 30 or 40 times tougher than the common version, based on informal information. (I have about 35 of the common and just one of the rare, and other player collectors are saying similar things, apparently.)

Was anyone aware of this? Are there player collectors out there that can check their own stockpiles? I'd love to see some more scans and find out how tough these are for other collectors.

Stone193

<< <i>though I only have the base. >>

Drew

Do you want me to check and see if I have the 'black' parallel Clark?

mike

edit: sorry Drew - no got.

CDsNuts

You see periods and asterixes in your sleep don't you?

TNP777

Drew - thanks for the heads up on the '92 Leaf. I had an "INC." but not an "INC" - checked my dupes box and found a variation! I had four of the blacks as well, but didn't have a variation there. I'll have to add that one to the list.

As far as the '88 Donruss goes, I see the same paragraph breakup on my dupe Butlers, but can't that be chalked up to the border variations on the front? The back variations in my dupes box all match the border variations I've got in my permanent collection.


Mike, if you're up for checking your 1992 Leaf blacks for #186, I need a "INC." with the dot.

Geordie

ArnyVee

Does this mean that you'd have to have two full sets of '88 Donruss graded by PSA to have the '88 Donruss "Master" set? LOL....one version of each card with the one asterisk and the other with the two asterisk. Woo hoo....more grading fees for PSA!!

You know, you guys are killing me because I've got the Raphael Palmeiro sets going and I don't want to start looking for these variations. Stop the insanity! By the way, I really like to see the differences, just would hate to get tempted to start to try and collect them all.

Stone193

<< <i>Drew - thanks for the heads up on the '92 Leaf. I had an "INC." but not an "INC" - checked my dupes box and found a variation! I had four of the blacks as well, but didn't have a variation there. I'll have to add that one to the list.

As far as the '88 Donruss goes, I see the same paragraph breakup on my dupe Butlers, but can't that be chalked up to the border variations on the front? The back variations in my dupes box all match the border variations I've got in my permanent collection.


Mike, if you're up for checking your 1992 Leaf blacks for #186, I need a "INC." with the dot.

Geordie >>

Geordi

Sorry - no.

I only have about 400 of them left - didn't do the set but did sell them - made some nice money on them when they were hot - that was the "boom" period and people were going crazy over parallel sets back then!

mike

TNP777

Mike - thanks for checking.

yf

Geordie

TNP777

ok Drew, and you other Donruss variation guys - after mostly reading, plus lots of back & forth between the permanent Butler collection and my dupes box, and some participation & fact checking over at Beckett, some new variations have been uncovered. Drew, you might already know about them, but maybe not.

It seems that from '89-'92 Donruss, the INC/INC. variation exists. For '89, it has been confirmed that INC/INC. exists for both the *denotes and *denotes* variations. It is unclear at this point whether INC/INC. variations exist for both front border variations in '90 & '91.

Isn't this fun? I sure think so! In the past week or so, because of this thread and the one over at Beckett, I found five new variations in my dupes box, plus have at least a couple more to chase.



Geordie

edit - there may also be some sort of variation going on with '91 Fleer. I can't confirm with my Butlers, according to a very knowledgeable guy on the BMB, "it seems that each 1991 Fleer card is affected by one of the following variations: Stat line/placement, text changes or photo cropping." I lifted an example of the stat line variation below.

mmync

Wax, Factory and Leaf.

TNP777

I was just reminded of an Upper Deck variation - I had completely forgotten about it. It's from the 1990 set, and the variation may only exist between card numbers 100 and 199. These cards were printed with and without the copyright line. I know Butler's card has it, as I found a no copyright in my dupes box.

MeteoriteGuy

1989 Upper Deck, Cards #1 - 100 can be found with either an R or TM next to the team logo on
the front.

TNP777

I dodged that bullet. Butler is #218 in the '89 set.

mmync

Hey, the 87 Topps cards that have TM or no TM, is there any price difference between the two?

LarkinCollector

<< <i>What I don't really get is that PSA doesn't disinguish these variations (1981 OPC greyback for instance), but they will distinguish other variations, particularly in vintage sets. Seems kind of arbitrary.

Lee >>


What would it take to get PSA to recognize a lot of these variations? Many are quite obvious and would probably get a lot more of these junk wax cards graded for player/team collectors who must have all the variations.