Cooler heads, please help deciding who is right here...
Rogermnj
Posts: 1,809 ✭✭
Hey guys, just needed your opinion on something here.
I want to be objective as possible so i will just state the facts.
Ebay item:
2 87 opc baseball boxes.
the description states:
Some buyers have experienced card damage with this item caused by the gum in the packs. As a result, the buyer will now receive TWO BOXES instead of the one sent in the past. This will hopefully make up for the damaged cards and give you an appropriate amount equal to a box. Maybe More. Also, the price has been reduced from the recent $18 per box, and although actual postage will cost $8.10, S&H is set at an attractive $8.00.
Ok, so i figure the bottom one or two cards are in real bad shape but i will still get plenty of clean cards.
I get the boxes- i open 3 packs out of each box- EVERY card is complete damaged and the boxes appear to have gone through a flood- There is not a single card that would grade higher then a 1.
I file paypal claim. I e-mail seller. He states he never stated a guaranteed condition of the boxes. He says he will abide by paypals decision. 30 days later, i win claim. He sends me e-mail...
Some buyers have experienced card damage with this item caused by the gum in the packs. As a result, the buyer will now receive TWO BOXES instead of the one sent in the past. This will hopefully make up for the damaged cards and give you an appropriate amount equal to a box. Maybe More. Also, the price has been reduced from the recent $18 per box, and although actual postage will cost $8.10, S&H is set at an attractive $8.00.
i respond:
I didnt even see it. But i do remember you saying that you will abide by whatever paypal decides. Those were your exact words... I guess you meant, you will abide what they decide UNLESS they rule against you... Anyway, thanks for the update.
Roger-
he responds..
I will indeed abide by their decision, whatever their final decision may be. My abiding with their decision has to do with keeping feedback out of this, as you stated you were willing to do. With the appeal, I'm just looking for a bit of legitimate reasoning which coincides with their own rules. An appeal is a typical step in the process, which as long as it's available, I will use. Whoever made the decision clearly does not even know Paypal's own rules since they clearly state that if a refund is to be made on behalf of the buyer, the buyer will be required to return the item to the seller and show proof of delivery. Therefore, they themself are breaking their own rules. Think about it, the decision to refund your money without the added requirement to return the item to the seller, means anyone at anytime can file a claim on the same grounds and walk away with their money back and a free item.
Rest assurred, I will indeed abide with their decision as I stated. I am a man of my word as long as I don't get stabbed in the back.
i respond..
There is really no point continuing this conversation. You will never admit to yourself that you sent me two boxes of garbage that are worthless.
Roger-
No point indeed. You are never going to admit you failed to read the listing and then tried to put the blame on me. If you believe in your heart that Paypal made the correct decision, according to their own rules, then run with it. You are simply too hard headed and full of yourself to even take an intelligent look at it. I'm sure you've dealt with the law in the past. Rules are rules. I sent exactly what was described in my listings. Why did each and everyone of the other 10 buyers not have a problem with their purchase, even though their boxes were taken from the same exact case as yours? Run from your guilt and deceit if you must, but the truth will always be looking over your shoulder.
I tried to be open and upfront by letting you know the case was settled, but that I filed an appeal. I didn't want you to find out on your own and wanted to be open with you. Do you honestly blame me for taking that next step of filing an appeal? I'm sure you would do the same thing or already have with a situation in the past. I simply wanted to be honest with you, but it's clear you are ungrateful. I tried.
i respond
I dont blame you at all because I truly believe that in your mind you believe you are correct.
Thank you for letting me know the status of the claim. Have a good day memorial day weekend,
Roger-
If any of you actually read all of that, I would love to hear some opinions...
Please tell me if i am out of line so i can apoligize to this guy!
I want to be objective as possible so i will just state the facts.
Ebay item:
2 87 opc baseball boxes.
the description states:
Some buyers have experienced card damage with this item caused by the gum in the packs. As a result, the buyer will now receive TWO BOXES instead of the one sent in the past. This will hopefully make up for the damaged cards and give you an appropriate amount equal to a box. Maybe More. Also, the price has been reduced from the recent $18 per box, and although actual postage will cost $8.10, S&H is set at an attractive $8.00.
Ok, so i figure the bottom one or two cards are in real bad shape but i will still get plenty of clean cards.
I get the boxes- i open 3 packs out of each box- EVERY card is complete damaged and the boxes appear to have gone through a flood- There is not a single card that would grade higher then a 1.
I file paypal claim. I e-mail seller. He states he never stated a guaranteed condition of the boxes. He says he will abide by paypals decision. 30 days later, i win claim. He sends me e-mail...
Some buyers have experienced card damage with this item caused by the gum in the packs. As a result, the buyer will now receive TWO BOXES instead of the one sent in the past. This will hopefully make up for the damaged cards and give you an appropriate amount equal to a box. Maybe More. Also, the price has been reduced from the recent $18 per box, and although actual postage will cost $8.10, S&H is set at an attractive $8.00.
i respond:
I didnt even see it. But i do remember you saying that you will abide by whatever paypal decides. Those were your exact words... I guess you meant, you will abide what they decide UNLESS they rule against you... Anyway, thanks for the update.
Roger-
he responds..
I will indeed abide by their decision, whatever their final decision may be. My abiding with their decision has to do with keeping feedback out of this, as you stated you were willing to do. With the appeal, I'm just looking for a bit of legitimate reasoning which coincides with their own rules. An appeal is a typical step in the process, which as long as it's available, I will use. Whoever made the decision clearly does not even know Paypal's own rules since they clearly state that if a refund is to be made on behalf of the buyer, the buyer will be required to return the item to the seller and show proof of delivery. Therefore, they themself are breaking their own rules. Think about it, the decision to refund your money without the added requirement to return the item to the seller, means anyone at anytime can file a claim on the same grounds and walk away with their money back and a free item.
Rest assurred, I will indeed abide with their decision as I stated. I am a man of my word as long as I don't get stabbed in the back.
i respond..
There is really no point continuing this conversation. You will never admit to yourself that you sent me two boxes of garbage that are worthless.
Roger-
No point indeed. You are never going to admit you failed to read the listing and then tried to put the blame on me. If you believe in your heart that Paypal made the correct decision, according to their own rules, then run with it. You are simply too hard headed and full of yourself to even take an intelligent look at it. I'm sure you've dealt with the law in the past. Rules are rules. I sent exactly what was described in my listings. Why did each and everyone of the other 10 buyers not have a problem with their purchase, even though their boxes were taken from the same exact case as yours? Run from your guilt and deceit if you must, but the truth will always be looking over your shoulder.
I tried to be open and upfront by letting you know the case was settled, but that I filed an appeal. I didn't want you to find out on your own and wanted to be open with you. Do you honestly blame me for taking that next step of filing an appeal? I'm sure you would do the same thing or already have with a situation in the past. I simply wanted to be honest with you, but it's clear you are ungrateful. I tried.
i respond
I dont blame you at all because I truly believe that in your mind you believe you are correct.
Thank you for letting me know the status of the claim. Have a good day memorial day weekend,
Roger-
If any of you actually read all of that, I would love to hear some opinions...
Please tell me if i am out of line so i can apoligize to this guy!
0
Comments
his first e-mail reads...
Roger, I suppose you have seen that at this point, Paypal has decided in your favor, and has refunded your purchase price of the 1987 O-Pee-Chee Baseball Boxes and a partial S&H amount. Congratulations. I say at this point, because I felt the need to file an appeal based on their reasoning for the decision. They stated, and I'm paraphrasing, the seller is responsible in assuring the item reaches the buyer in the condition as stated in the listing. As far as I'm concerned it did. I never make mention of any condition such as excellent, near mint, mint, etc. and only state the possible problems. In any event, Paypal told me a decision will be made by Friday regarding the appeal. I'll believe that when I see it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Roger-
If that statement is from one of his emails or his item description on Ebay, he seems to be saying that you should end up with at least one box worth of undamaged cards. If all the cards are damaged, then the boxes he sent don't match his item description.
The appeal should fail and the original ruling should stand, IMO.
Good Luck.
I get the boxes- i open 3 packs out of each box- EVERY card is complete damaged and the boxes appear to have gone through a flood- There is not a single card that would grade higher then a 1.
The first sentence states an erroneous assumption you made - mistake #1. The second sentence describes your dissatisfaction with the product based upon your initial assumption. He states that "This will hopefully make up for the damaged cards.." which conveys the information that the possibility exists that it may not.
It doesn't sound like there's enough money involved to waste much time on it and I believe you were being too hopeful in the first place.
I rule that he wins on principle.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
The guy is a con man and chose his words very carefully for the listing so he could not only try to pull one past you, but by paypal also.
His answers to both you and paypal were the same meaning "I chose the exact words to use so no one could hold anything against me"
Guys like this are becoming the norm on Ebay....
<< <i>Dont waste your time making a point.
The guy is a con man and chose his words very carefully for the listing so he could not only try to pull one past you, but by paypal also.
His answers to both you and paypal were the same meaning "I chose the exact words to use so no one could hold anything against me"
Guys like this are becoming the norm on Ebay.... >>
baseballfanatic,
I bought several other unopened items from this dealer and was 95% percent happy with the rest of the stuff I bought. The one thing I wish would've been better was the Kirby card in a hard-to-get set that wasn't in top condition.
Again, I felt I was warned adequately about the cards, but I can see now why he's having such a "fire" sale on the boxes! That's probably where the water damage came from!
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
An appeal of the SNAD decision has to rest on that lingo.
The seller is correct, regarding the fact that a return of the
merch is supposed to be made PRIOR to any final award
in the claim. It would, thus, cost you $10.00 to return the
items; UNLESS you can convince PP that the items are
worthless, and the return of them places an unfair burden
on you.
The seller admitted he was selling boxes of junk. In fact,
he even sweetened the deal with "two boxes of junk, for
the price of one."
The buyer likely assumed the risk. "Hopefully" means "maybe
and maybe not." It is FAR from a guarantee.
I have no clue how PP will decide. They are all nitwits, and
they have all been told to "help the buyer, if at all possible."
You have encountered a seller who understands PP, and
wants to have fun playing with them.
The seller would probably prevail in Small Claims.
A good policy is to avoid buying this kind of carp from EBAY
sellers.
I would NOT communicate further with the seller.
Good Luck.
Believe me when I tell you, I could care less about this money. It is just the point that he specifically said == SINCE I SAID HOPEFULLY- i am free from any obligations. (This is what makes me nuts)
Curious to see how your 87opc boxes are...
Roger-
I have since opened 26 boxes of opc that i bought from DAcardworld for $13ea..
Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
Bottom line here, though, is the guy knows all the cards are junk and is playing word games to get around it. How generous of him to send double the amount of junk because all the cards are ruined! I agree with SteveK on this one!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Considering your main head to head dispute with the seller is over the appeal, how is it a retraction by the seller? He said he would abide by what Paypal found, and is using a legitimate function of Paypal (the appeal) in the process. The decision of the appeal is still Paypal's decision, it's just a lengthier process. >>
My problem is the whole thing to begin with. I could care less about the appeal, just shocked that he thinks labeling a product hopefully frees him from any obligation.