1931-S Cracked Buffalo

BIGJAYVEE

Has a crack starting in the middle of the cheek down through hair,then splits into a Y and has alot of material along the crack route.I want to say lamination,but not sure.Need some other opinions.Hope the pics help.









Honest Chris,i was going to say delamination. Thanks

guitarwes

I can't find the "zoom out a little" button on the pics?

BlackBeard

<< <i>I can't find the "zoom out a little" button on the pics? >>



Agreed, maybe posting an innie and an outie would clear it up.

coinsarefun

I had very similar looking crack on my Morgan and was told its lamination.

Shamika

This is neither a die crack nor lamination. This is known as DELAMINATION.

Shamika

FYI: Lamination occurs when something comes between the planchet and the die leaving an impression from the foriegn object on the coin. Delmanation occurs when the planchet is poorly prepared resulting in peeling of the planchet surface.

Lamination and delamination are all too frequently confused. They are NOT related in any way.

NumisOxide

FredWeinberg

Those definitions are not correct, in my opinion.

Shamika

<< <i>Those definitions are not correct, in my opinion. >>


Fred - Please let us know how you would correct these. Thanks.

FredWeinberg

A lamination is the flaking of the metal on the
coins surface, due to improper metal mixture.
(the improper metal mixture can also cause a
"occludded gas bubble", which "pops", after
the coin is struck (and in circuation, sometimes)

It can be a small or large flake, still attached.

It can be a "void" in the surface of the coin, after the
piece of metal has come detached.

The term "Lamination", "detached lamination", or
"attached lamination" have been used, and are
all accurate, imo.

I've never used, and have only rarely heard, the
term "delamination" - that would fall under the
above descriptions. It's not a term used by
error collectors.

Something on the dies, or the surface of the coin itself that
is not part of the coin, would be a "Struck Thru" - which is
a very large catagory, and coins are "struck thru" a wide
variety of things - grease, metal flakes, washers, wood
chips, etc. etc. etc. and so on.....

Hope this helps a bit - I just wanted to make sure that your
first sentence (a few posts up), was clarified.

Fred

coinsarefun

Fred,then this would be called lamination?
Sorry, beginner here. Thanks

Shamika

Thanks Fred,

I agree that "lamination" is commonly used as you mentioned above. But "delamination" as used in the fields of material science and metallurgy refers to the peeling away of a material surface due to improper mixture of an alloy or additive or from trapped volatiles.

I know I'm fighting a losing battle here, but when I see the term "lamination", I can't help but to cringe and wonder how this shortened version of the word "delamination" became a part of numismatic vocabulary when the two words have different meanings.

Shamika

coinsarefun - Looks like a missing feather to me.

coinsarefun

The lamination or crack(IMO) starts at the die gouge works its way down to the feathers and where the feathers are missing chunks are missing and dark from toning(tarnish)

FredWeinberg

Like a "Clipped Planchet" being a total misnomer, I then
would agree that "lamination" isn't correct, but it's usage
has been in the error hobby since the 1950's, at least.....

As far as the silver dollar, the scans aren't that great, but
it looks like a "struck thru" to me.

It's not a die crack at all - and the shiny area says that the
area in question was struck-thru a small sliver of metal,
then fell off, leaving the shiny area, or, the shiny area is
the result of a "delamination", after the coin is struck.

Can't tell which, from the scans......

coinsarefun

Thanks Fred,
Does this picture show any better.?

FredWeinberg

No, the last scan doesn't help.

Can you scan it flat, and with a nice
closeup of the area????

Sometimes, these things can't be
identified by scans only -

BIGJAYVEE

Where else can you get infomation like this from some of the top numismatists in their field.The Forum should always stay as it was intended,about the coin hobby and all it encompasses.No need for some of the trash talking threads that sometimes find their way in here.Above are some truly noteworthy posts that give information and opinions.It does'nt get any better than this. Thanks

coinsarefun

Ok, I am going to try again , but still blurry. Got to invest in some decent equipment, not the kids scope.



working from upper left down through to wing took closeups ending at the missing pieces.

Shamika

<< <i>Like a "Clipped Planchet" being a total misnomer, I then
would agree that "lamination" isn't correct, but it's usage
has been in the error hobby since the 1950's, at least..... >>



But Fred, if anyone in the field could change this, you're the guy. No one would question your clarification on this matter.

Oh well, what can one guy do.