A Message from PSA - Looking for Feedback

JoeOrlando

Hello everyone,

We are looking to find ways of expanding the SMR pricing and PSA Population Report so more detail can be viewed. For example. we want to include more prices/columns for lower grades in SMR (instead of merely providing a % chart) and to discontinue to the "lumping" of lower grades in the Pop Report so hobbyists can see the EXACT grade breakdown.

It will take some time to modify it but the question I have for the board members is....how important are things of that nature to you?

Thank you for your time in responding,

Joe Orlando
President

ajw

More accurate pricing is far more important, IMHO.

perkdog

PRICING PRICING PRICING

gstarling

I actually collect mid-grade pre WWII cards, and often wonder how many of the 3-4 are actually 4.

That being said, accurate pricing would be great. I went from using SMR daily as a guide to never using it as more accurate pricing models (like vintagecardprices.com) became available.

storm888

we want to include more prices/columns for lower grades in SMR

Not very important.


Better and more complete tracking of recent sales would be somewhat useful.
On the other hand, if that requires a substantial investment, do not spend the
money; members can already obtain that sales info free from other sources.

The market and CC members have already accepted SMR as "only a guide."
We have no problem with that. Trying to make SMR "the Bible" will not work,
and any resources spent in the effort will be lost.


///////////////////////////////////////


discontinue the "lumping" of lower grades in the Pop Report so hobbyists can see the EXACT grade breakdown.

Not important.

I really do not need to know that a member in Kansas submitted his
childhood collection and got a bunch of PSA 3 grades. It is important
to him, but not to the market.

On high-value/scarce items, knowing that there are X# of 1s and 2s
might have some value.



///////////////////////////////////////


Tinkering with the unbroken, is probably not the best expenditure of resources.
EBAY does that all day, everyday; it allows them to hire more and more employees,
- and waste shareholders' money - but results in disenchanted customers. There
is nothing wrong with the current SMR. (Although, the print version could use some
more educational/informational/instructional articles.)




////////////////////////////////////////


However..........................


PSA needs more journeyman graders and more apprentice graders. This need
can be funded by establishing a PSA Card-Grading Camp. Members will pay a
substantial sum to come to CA for five or six days, and receive training in how
to properly grade trading cards and other collectibles. The course of study can
be written in-house, in just a few days. There can be 3 or 4 sessions per year.

The tuition will include the hotel, and all required study materials. Something in
the $3K per-attendee range should provide the revenue to fund the camp, with
enough left-over to fund some additional graders. A few of the students who
matriculate through the camp may even provide a deep bench for the future
hiring needs of PSA.



........................................

I know we ALL hope, as time permits, you will visit here more often.


Thanks!

scooter729

Thanks for requesting feedback - this is great to see!

A couple of areas where I collect - vintage boxing and golf - don't seem to accurately reflect recent sales. T218's often sell for 2x - 5x what the SMR price is in PSA 6 and 7. Meanwhile, in the 1927 Churchman's golf set, a PSA 7 common is listed at $125, but the line at the bottom of the section says they usually sell for $80 - $85 per card. Which is it?

Regarding expanded pricing for lower grades, I would love to see grades for at least PSA 3's, for cards at least from Cracker Jacks (1915) and older. There is quite a demand for these on this pre-war material in PSA 3, so it's tough to calculate percentages on this stuff.

And the more vintage sets that can appear in SMR, the better. I know sets such as 1895 Mayo N300 would be great to have in the SMR, but I'm sure the scarcity of sales may make this tough to do.

Keep up the good work!
Scott

Griffins

I think even the most diligently researched printed price guides are destined to be inaccurate by the time they hit the streets. With online realized pricing services being increasingly utilized I think if PSA could strike a deal much like SGC did it would provide the most accurate data. I don't think SMR as a price guide is really relevant anymore, and don't know if it ever could be in its present form. There is a better system in place.

As far as the pop reports, it would help a lot to break out some of the lower grades. While it means nothing in '89 Upper Deck, for scarcer cards all examples are lumped into PSA 1-2, PSA 3-4, etc. Only by extrapolating data from cards in lower grades that are in registry sets can a breakdown be ascertained.
Increasing the scope of the pop report would be very beneficial as well. As far as I can tell, there is no way to access data on cards graded "authentic" nor those certified by PSA/DNA. I understand pack grading pops are now online, but an easier way to access these would help as well.

sfmays24

Hi Joe,

Having a more accurate/complete SMR & POP for lower graded cards would not only increase submissions for such cards, but also expand collector interest in such grades. Many collectors pass on cards they cannot find listed in the SMR & POP, thus fewer submissions by potential sellers.

I believe such an expansion would benefit both the collector and PSA... like the old saying, "what's good for General Motors is good for America."

Best of luck,

Mike

MorrellMan

Joe - thanks for asking. I personally would like to see the lower grade pop breakdown for '59 Morrells. There is a vast market difference between a 3 and a 4 in that issue.

Southerncards

markj111

<< <i> >>



Shouldn't that be a picture of Dubya?

Bumper Sticker-That's OK, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.

bighurt2000

Will if you want to expand on the SMR pricing and PSA Population here is what I think.

SMR Pricing
1.Show more of the lower grades Pricing Pre-1980

2.Show more Pricing of Stars / Rookies 1980-Present

3.Develop a computer system that can track Ebay/
Other Auction House final prices realized and update
them on your system twice a month.

4.Have it were when your looking at the SMR and are let's say looking at

1989 Upper Deck #1 Ken Griffey Jr. PSA 10's pricing.

It would be nice to be able to click on the PSA 10 price and it
would send you to the

1989 Upper Deck # 1 Ken Griffey Jr. Population Report insted of
have to go all throw your system to get there.

5.Have it were you can look at the price change for up to one
year ago a up and down chart would be nice.

Population Reports

1.Online Population Report show all the break downs on all the cards
PSA 1 through PSA 10 Period. Know reason not to.

2.People who are breaking out PSA cards and are getting them regraded
it would be nice if they were aloud to return the old flips to you and you
would delete them from the Population Report for a better more accurate
Population Report.

3.Same as #4 above but in reverse.

rbdjr1

There are many series and sets that, in my opinion, need SMR pricing, sports and non-sports alike.

A few Examples are:

1971 OPC Baseball
1976 OPC Baseball
1961 Nu-Card Football

Just to name a few!

I believe that the absense of being listed with SMR pricing, has caused the values of PSA graded cards to be sold for less than what they should. Even the 70's O-Pee-Chee's, that PSA mentions are scarcer than their Topps counterparts, should have their own pricing.

There are numereous other examples that should be considered for SMR pricing.

Joe, in addition to "vamping" your pop reports to include PSA 1's, PSA 2's, PSA 3's & PSA 4's "on their own"!

Additional SMR prices for various card sets, series, years, etc., need to be added to your SMR Pricing Guide.

Also Joe, I "echo" what has been said here.

Good luck in this endeavor!

rd

rbdjr1's 1976 Topps Baseball - The Number One All Time Finest Set

rbdjr1's 1961 Nu-Card Football Set - The Number One All Time Finest Set

onlyanumber

rbjr1 hit it on the head. We need pricing on the OPC sets as their population is increasing and it's one of those rising brands.

I would like to see the lower grades broken up better in the columns, both price wise and population wise.

Bosox1976

Marry SMR, pop reports, and registry together - so that when viewing your registry sets smr is shown and a total is calculated - and detailed pop report is available on the same page. I know there are registry owners who don't join or purchase services - a tiered system is fine.

grote15

I agree with the OPC suggestion. There ought to be a pricing guide for these cards as they have become very popular issues, among American and Canadian collectors alike, over the last few years.

A761506

I think both of these ideas are excellent for non-mainstream issues.

There are some issues where the majority of the cards for the issue grade 6 or lower. I think the distinction between 1-2-3-4 in the population reports is extremely significant for these issues. I don't think it would matter much on more common issues, such as standard issue Topps cards, in which the vast majority of the cards in the set grade 6 and higher.

As far as pricing, same deal again, the lower grades of standard issue Topps cards don't really matter much, as far as listing individual prices, but on the issues with far more cards in lower grade, it makes a lot of sense.

Granted, the ultimate difficulty with pricing is that the SMR does not accurately account for current market conditions, population scarcity, and does not provide pricing for most non-mainstream issues. On the few non-mainstream cards that pricing is provided for (such as Bazooka's & Post Cereal), the pricing is completely inaccurate and has never been updated going back as far as I can recall.

shagrotn77

I agree with the sentiment of a lot of the others here, that being that current pricing in SMR is basically a joke. Correcting that is far more important than adding anything to a "price guide" that no one even references because its prices are so far off.

As a side note, I collect football HOF rookie cards and e-mailed a list (with prices) of these cards that are not included in SMR about 6 weeks ago. No additions yet. '70 Mack, '71 Wehrli, '71 C. Sanders, '77 Carson are among the cards that need to be added. I might be leaving 1 or 2 out since I'm doing this off the top of my head.

pandrews

<< <i>Shouldn't that be a picture of Dubya? >>



clinton fits the picture just fine also.. he did his share of lying..

anyway, as for the SMR topic, i agree with what Griffins said.. i also like bighurt2000 and Bosox1976 ideas of joining the info together..

Carew29

You wanna fix something Joe?? How about working on Customer Service with your employees. I would think the face of PSA would rank a little higher than how many PSA 3'S are in existence. BTW, still waiting on my March order Joe....

colebear

I would like to see the cards listed in the SMR linked to the pop. report and vice versa, similar to Beckett

More pricing is always good, as everyone else said but the linking of cards would float my boat the best.

As long as you are asking for suggestions, this should be a simple thing tp do. Put a chart somewhere on the site of the cutoffs for each holder (i.e. max size for tall boy and supersized)

drewsef

more pricing is nice, but more prices realized tracking is what is truly needed. There has been so little movement in football for the past year in SMR it makes it not in tune with where the market is truly at. More rookies that are selling for substantial premiums due to PSA's own good marketing should be included in the SMR also. And one more request, please correct the 1967 Philadelphia Lee Roy Jordan card that is listed, he isn't in the HOF(which is listed in parenthesis) but that it is his RC, sorry, that one's just a pet peeve.

jaxxr

Thanks for asking for input...
I am sure PSA is aware of the old saying " You can't please everyone, everytime."

Most collectors are quite aware that ANY published data, regarding prices and pops, is somewhat outdated, and use it as just a guide, or a reference for cards/items thay are not very familar with.

I think SMR could alternate its price info on a monthly basis. Possibly baseball and football cards in one month's issue, then the following month basketball, hockey, non-sports cards, bats, tickets, balls, packs, and whatever else is done by PSA. Next month back to baseball and football cards.
Much more detail could be presented on the selected items each month, it could have lower grades, uncommon issues, recent sales, and so on. The "deadline" for the content would be lessened and more time per issue, because of less overall items, might be spent providing greater detail and accuracy. I would hope each issue still contained the same amount of pages, but could greatly expand the information, because of fewer subjects.

mandeld

My $.02..

I would like to see population report trends so that I can see how many cards have been submitted over time, and how prices have or have not been affected by the presence of additional cards. This would also allow me to see if recent submissions are likely to affect the future pricing of a particular collectible.

I have also long thought storm888's idea about a grading camp would be a great additional revenue stream for PSA and an excellent resource for those of us that would like to get more experience grading cards.

-Dan

Alfonz24

<< <i>That being said, accurate pricing would be great. I went from using SMR daily as a guide to never using it as more accurate pricing models (like vintagecardprices.com) became available. >>



I strongly agree with gstarling. vintagecardprices.com (VCP) is an awesome service when trying to find what items are selling for in the auctions.

It would be nice if you could work out a partnership with VCP. As part of the PSA membership, offer the VCP service. Then the folks at VCP could use the extra cash to greatly improve their already good product. PSA is in the business of grading cards. VCP is in the business to accurately reflect the going rate of graded cards. Know your business.

Thanks for asking our opinions,

Alfonz24

tennesseebanker

I agree with the above, Partner with Vcp or just outright buy em.

Thanks for asking Joe !

itzagoner

agree with the "More Rookies" crowd some sell for premium due to scarcity/demand, but that is not always reflected in the prices

disagree with the alternating of price info month to month....occasionally there is volatility within a certain set causing prices to fluctuate....i wouldn't want to wait an extra month to find that out

Thanks Joe!

skilow

Please get rid of the yearly membership fee so I can quit sending my cards to Beckett to get graded.

Thanks

storm888

Please get rid of the yearly membership fee so I can quit sending my cards to Beckett to get graded.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


The tiny membership fee is about the only bargain left in
the trading card hobby.

Free submissions, free gifts, full access to POP/SMR online,
AND the SMR mag every month.

The membership fee does not cost, IT PAYS !!!

Ladder7

I for one endorse the the idea that lower grades be listed. These off condition examples are the most type graded of all prewar. Also, I understand the risk with 'greatly increasing the values in the SMR in one fell swoop for most post WWII issues, but for the prewar vintage there could be a larger step-up for each issue.

Also, Might I suggest a partnership with www.vintagecardpricer.com then you could limit SMR production (Perhaps an annual edition similar to the Krause cat). Other grading service(s) offer this at no cost and certainly welcome gesture that pays off.

Incidentally, Thanks for asking us.

OilCanDan

The SMR is irrelevant. Partner with or acquire VCP. There's no good reason they're so much better at pricing PSA graded cards than PSA itself.

My $.02.

jdip9

I agree with those who want to see Pop/pricing/registry linked.

Jaxxr makes a great point about the alternate month pricing for the print issue. There likely isn't enough price swings within a month to warrant a complete price guide for all sports each month. I think by alternating sports, it allows for more research into completed auctions etc. for more accurate pricing....In addition, perhaps you could offer alternative subscriptions for each magazine...i.e. a baseball/football only subscription (6 issues/1 yr) vs. a "all other sports" issue (6 issues/1yr) for those collectors that only collect a couple sports vs. an all-inclusive subscription (12 issues/1yr)

41GoudeyGuy

I think the value in these proposals depends on what you collect. I collect many prewar era cards and am very interested in knowing the population of each grade rather than the "1-2" or "3-4" breakdown currently listed. A more accurate Price Guide would be exactly that, a Guide. I would like to see pricing for lower grades on vintage cards but most modern cards are essentially worthless in grades under 7. A relationship with a price tracker would be the most beneficial for me. I do my best to track auction results for cards I am looking to purchase but it gets very time consuming and if I add something new to my list I am at a disadvantage and could really use a service such as this rather than the marginally accurate values provided in the guide now.

Southerncards

Too late fellas....


SportsCard Guaranty, LLC (SGC) and VintageCardPrices.com Join Forces


SportsCard Guaranty, LLC (SGC) and VintageCardPrices.com have partnered up to bring you the most accurate sports card price guide available. Find the value of your sports cards (baseball, basketball, football, hockey, boxing and more) based on prices realized on eBay and major auction houses.

Here’s a brief summary of benefits that you get by signing up as a FREE SGC member:
Prices realized on eBay and major Auction Houses. Find the value of your SGC graded Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey and Boxing sports cards.

"My Collection" Feature. Input your card collection with the price you paid for it. Our system will update the value of the cards in your collection every time there is a sale.

"Want List" Feature. This feature allows you to add cards to your "Want List" the same way that you add cards to "My Collection". After adding the card to your "Want List", any new auctions on eBay that match your card will result in an email notification being sent to alert you.
And much more!
"We are very glad to be working with a company like SGC because of the trust and integrity they provide to the collecting community. We feel honored that they choose us to bring this valuable data to you to use to make you a better buyer and seller."
- Bobby Binder
President
Vintage Card Prices "SGC is proud to align ourselves with VintageCardPrices.com. The partnership gives our clients the ability to track transactions from ebay as well as from major public auction houses. VCP is in a league by itself when it comes to providing accurate and reliable auction data."
- Dave Forman
President
SportsCard Guaranty, LLC

noanswersonlyquestions

Value is based on what any individual is willing to pay. I have been tracking football cards for basically all the 70's sets. One day they are up and the next day they are easy to obtain it just depends on who wants what. When dealing with team collectors or set collectors every day is different. SMR really means nothing as far as I am concerned. My biggest concern is keeping the Pop Reports up to date. Nice to know what is out there. Good for SGC does anyone really use them? Very insignificant at this point.

Southerncards

<< <i> Good for SGC does anyone really use them? >>



Just thousands of knowledgable collectors, dealers and auction houses...but what do they know?

noanswersonlyquestions

ok just looking at what i collect sgc is insignificant. did a quick search on ebay and 1116 items listed for sgc and 25116 for psa. i know the lionel carter collection and, wow, were they nice cards but unless you are looking for pre-1955 baseball they hold no weight in todays collecting market. no offense but they just don't have it. not saying they don't grade accurately but they just aren't used.

Southerncards

<< <i>ok just looking at what i collect sgc is insignificant. did a quick search on ebay and 1116 items listed for sgc and 25116 for psa. i know the lionel carter collection and, wow, were they nice cards but unless you are looking for pre-1955 baseball they hold no weight in todays collecting market. no offense but they just don't have it. not saying they don't grade accurately but they just aren't used. >>



No offense my collecting friend but you are so far off base on this one. SGC is a very well used company. One random search of ebay is not enough to throw numbers around. The problem with that also is that the vast majority of submitters to SGC do so for their personal collections, not for resale hence the lower numbers of available cards for sale on ebay. SGC is the company to use for vintage cards, hands down.

storm888

"...the vast majority of submitters to SGC do so for their personal collections, not for resale..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I guess if one never plans to sell their cards, SGC -
or any other grader - would be adequate.

Southerncards

<< <i>"...the vast majority of submitters to SGC do so for their personal collections, not for resale..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I guess if one never plans to sell their cards, SGC -
or any other grader - would be adequate. >>




Its all about personal preference!

Carew29

yada,yada,yada....

noanswersonlyquestions

that is all good but I don't see why you constantly bash PSA on this board. Like I said I am new here but do you collect psa as well?

noanswersonlyquestions

am new here don't mind controversy. check my posts will defend rose and bonds. decided i needed to focus on collecting on what i love and decided football. just saying that smr means nothing. like to bicker back and forth. have 4 kids in the house nothing new to me.

colebear

I am curious southern cards, why do you post here when you dislike PSA such. Are you just here to ruin the PSA collectors posting comm. by contributing pretty nothing but spam? Do you post on other boards and promote SGC the same way you do here? Does SGC offer you some sort of financial gain for your advertising or are you just a SGC proselytizer?

I am personally surprised that PSA has let this go on as long as it has. For me, your pushing has gotten to the point where I think your opinion is actually damaging the SGC reputation on this board. I think a majority of the posters here prefer PSA but they believe SGC is a quality grader also. So for the sake of SGC, let up a little and post something that is not an advertisement. If SGC wants more customers, your methods are proving to be very ineffective at helping them. I am quite sure they have a dept to assist them with advertising.

storm888

Does SGC offer you some sort of financial gain for your advertising...


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Actually, PSA should pay that bill. Such "advertising"
ONLY helps PSA.

brianwintersfan

<< <i>You wanna fix something Joe?? How about working on Customer Service with your employees. I would think the face of PSA would rank a little higher than how many PSA 3'S are in existence. BTW, still waiting on my March order Joe.... >>



Agreed!

greenmonstaaaah

joe, how about adding some popular sets to the smr, such as the 1956 topps baseball pins (or baseball buttons, as topps called em back in the day???). i inquired about this with u about a year or two ago, and u mentioned something to the effect that due to space constraints it is impossible to list every set in the smr; i know space is limited in the magazine, but what about the smr online?? the pin set continues to be an extremely popular "oddball" set and these pins are always fetching big money on ebay in high grade, especially the stars. u have them in the pop report, so doesnt it make sense to include them in the smr as well??

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>SportsCard Guaranty, LLC (SGC) and VintageCardPrices.com Join Forces

Here’s a brief summary of benefits that you get by signing up as a FREE SGC member:
Prices realized on eBay and major Auction Houses. Find the value of your SGC graded Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey and Boxing sports cards.

>>



Looks like the "price realized" feature is for SGC cards only, not for PSA, GAI and BVG as the paying subscribers receive.

Some who buy cards in other holders and cross to PSA want info on all the major grading companies. Personally I have nothing against SGC. Of the three sets I collect only one gets taken out of the SGC holder when purchased. For the other two I cross only GAI or BVG. I may even submit a few to SGC if I think the card would look better in that holder.

Don't think that Binder is giving away the farm here. They have worked too hard to come this far. Some of the SGC gurus on Net54 regularly give him a thrashing when he posts. Some respect for free enterprise huh?

VCP is a great service. PSA should either use the info to help determine SMR pricing, negotiate with VCP for a discounted full membership for PSA members, or offer the full membership to VCP as part of a PSA membership.

The VCP tracking info would certainly help PSA with the low grade SMR figures. I agree that most of this applies to pre war and some high priced post war material, not most 50's and 60's issues or later.

Linking the SMR to pops is a great idea.

Also, I would give up a hard copy SMR for an e-zine version to get VCP included in the PSA membership, or for more submissions.

Keith

gregm13

Joe,

A few suggestions:

1. The SMR pricing has to be updated for quite a few cards....especially HOF and key rookie cards.
2. The autograph pricing section is woefully inaccurate. I collect autographed cards of NFL HOFers and the SMR is only useful as a very, very general guide rather than an accurate reflection of pricing.
3. Off topic, but I'd really like if PSA would follow BGS's lead (I can't believe I'm saying this...) and start assigning a dual grade for autographed cards...one for the card condition and the second for the autograph condition. In addition, the grade to be used in the HOF autograph registry set should be the autograph's grade...not the card's grade. Otherwise, the GPA is skewed as it is no reflection of the quality of the autograph (which is what really matters when collecting autographs). On the other hand, you could compute the GPA on a hybrid basis based upon both the condition of the card and condition of the autograph. That would be interesting.
4. I think you should break out the lower grades for olders sets....say pre 1960. For instance, I collect mostly PSA 8's for vintage cards but for sets such as 1948 Leaf fb, sub PSA 6 cards are the goal of many collectors because anything higher is generally very expensive (not to mention scarce).

Thanks for putting the question to the boards. I think you and your employees put out a wonderful product and I'm proud to be a customer.

Regards,

Greg M.

brianwintersfan

<< <i>I am curious southern cards, why do you post here when you dislike PSA such. >>



Have you ever been to the SGC boards?? It's like a ghost town over there. Coming over here is the only way he will ever get any attention and have people to talk to.
And while I have used SGC in the past and have no issues with them as a company I think it's wishful reasoning to explain away why there are so fewer SGC cards for sale on Ebay compared to PSA.

nhcardhunter

Joe, before you make any changes to the smr online, you need to fix some issues, namely some missing cards in the Topps Baseball sets. Take the 1972 set for instance, there are quite a few missing card numbers such as the Piniella card and Doyle Alexander RC, numbers 579 and 580. It's recurring theme with other sets too, like the 1969, 1970, 1971 and so. This issue happened a while back (cards omitted) and has never been fixed. I sent two emails to you guys and never received a response.